Am 14.09.2011 01:20, schrieb Horace Heffner:
On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Peter Heckert wrote:
Am 13.09.2011 22:47, schrieb Man on Bridges:
Hi,
On 13-9-2011 20:44, Horace Heffner wrote:
snip calculation of lead shielding
Hmmm, is there a way to start and stop a gamma radiation source, as
Am 14.09.2011 02:17, schrieb Man on Bridges:
Hi,
On 14-9-2011 1:20, Horace Heffner wrote:
snip calculation
Just a thought.
Let's suppose Rossi is using a gamma radiation source as a catalyzer.
Is it then possible to determine the source (catalyzer) of the gamma
source, if the following
Am 14.09.2011 08:20, schrieb Peter Heckert:
As soon as it is totally and unmistakenly clear, this is a nuclear
reaction that produces large amounts of energy, law will stop him.
And international scientific research will start.
You cannot discover the stone of philosophers and commercialize
On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Peter Heckert wrote:
Am 14.09.2011 01:20, schrieb Horace Heffner:
On Sep 13, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Peter Heckert wrote:
Am 13.09.2011 22:47, schrieb Man on Bridges:
Hi,
On 13-9-2011 20:44, Horace Heffner wrote:
snip calculation of lead shielding
Hmmm, is
Am 14.09.2011 10:08, schrieb Horace Heffner:
It is not possible to put enough lead in the device to suppress the
1.33 MeV gammas from cobalt to even a non-lethal level - provided
there is enough cobalt to sustain a 15 kW reaction at one gamma per
LENR reaction.
Yes this is correct. But
In my opinion steam enthalpy is both necessary and sufficient. This is an
industrial test not a scientific one.
The question is if these two new surprisingly short tests are more
reliable and convincing than the former 7 ones.
to generate heat and to be a new energy source are not
identical.
Dear Horace,
Yes our points of view are quite similar.
These 2 tests can be characterized as partially aborted,
unfortunately.Or as an other disfunctionality starting with early DOING
AND NOT DOING in the same time, is the house's specialty.
Engineers are taught If you do something, do it well
Bologna April 19, 2011
Weight hydrogen bottle (attached, opened, closed, and detached):
- before: 13653.1 grams
- after: 13652.6 grams
Total loaded: 0.5 grams
Pressure H2 Bottle: 85 bar Reduced: 25 bar
Bologna April 28, 2011
Weight hydrogen bottle (attached, opened, closed, and detached):
-
These test results are indeed difficult to explain. I have one
question to those who have some or partial expert knowledge on steam
engineering: Does they use superheated steam or steam that is at
boiling point of local pressure? My guess is latter of course.
However, I cannot explain 130°C
Hi,
On 14-9-2011 12:05, Peter Heckert wrote:
Can this be? The Hydrogen bottle lost 25 bar of pressure and about 42
grams of hydrogen between April and September.
Does this make sense?
Well the following table is what the conditions might have been of the
bottle;
Presumed the contents of the
Am 14.09.2011 07:08, schrieb Peter Gluck:
The 1 MW plant with 333 cats meowing in a chorus is
a blasphemy against the Goddess of Engineering who demands simple but
reliable tests with individual E-cats,
according to the very logic of the things and to the pragmatical
common sense.
Many
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
Can this be? The Hydrogen bottle lost 25 bar of pressure and about 42 grams
of hydrogen between April and September.
Does this make sense?
How much H2 is typically inside the bottle?
It is probably leaking a little. I have not seen the hardware,
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3264365.ece/BINARY/Report+E-cat+test+September+7+%28pdf%29, I
have to laugh at the hydrogen weight measurement in the Nyteknik Preliminary
Report. The report a 2.7 gram drop in weight after filling with hydrogen.
But an average air molecule weighs about 28
Hi,
On 14-9-2011 15:05, Joe Catania wrote:
I have to laugh at the hydrogen weight measurement in the Nyteknik
Preliminary Report. The report a 2.7 gram drop in weight after filling
with hydrogen. But an average air molecule weighs about 28 whereas
hydrogen at 60 bar weighs 120 so you should
Good catch. Yes I've commented about how I dtested this method of weighing
before. I seem to have forgotten how he did it but I can see it is prone to
inaccuracy. He only fills it to 20 bars. He'd have to buy me many dinners to
convince me of this. All in all the rest of the report is sloppy or
See the E-cat run in self-sustained mode
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece
This video confirms my previous assumption above, that new E-Cat is
operating approximately 170 kPa overpressure. Also it confirms that
roughly 5 kW excess heat was produced. I have not
The E-Cat ran for 35 minutes without electrical power? Did anyone tell you
that the thermal inertia will run the E-Cat for that long?
- Original Message -
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 10:11 AM
Subject: Re:
[LENR-CANR.org News Item]
Rossi eCat device demonstrated in self-sustaining mode
September 14, 2011
NyTeknik published three articles and two videos about the Rossi device:
*See the E-cat run in self-sustained mode* Article and video
Joe Catania zrosumg...@aol.com wrote:
The E-Cat ran for 35 minutes without electrical power? Did anyone tell you
that the thermal inertia will run the E-Cat for that long?
At 22:35 input electric power was 2.5 kW. All electric power was cut off at
this time. The temperature dropped from
A) You're a fool to tell me that the E-Cat has no thermal inertia. It certainly
does. This is unavoidable. B) The data given are certainly consistent withy
thermal inertia being the cause.
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday,
Any mass has a certain gradient described in temp/time for thermal gain or
loss. I think Jed was specifying the period where the temperature rebounded
higher than it existed while being heated by input power. That seems anomalous
to me made more curious by the initial drop in temp when the
Amazing persistence with consistence by Rossi and unskilled observers,
as yet again a flawed demo that provides partial and inadequate
evidence and information for settling the issue of whether there is
indeed any excess heat or other anomalies...
Naturally, a pragmatic skeptic will consider how
No. Admittedly the temperature drop at powerdown may or may not be valid. In
fact if there's any magnetic field associated with the heating coils there
could be some EMF from shutting it down. It would seem to be an anomaly if we
assume it was measuring anything with thermal mass. Just notice
At 05:00 AM 9/14/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
These test results are indeed
difficult to explain.
And (regrettably) incomplete. We know that the power to the resistor was
being cycled on and off, but not the actual duty ratio!
Water came out -- but we don't know its temperature.
I have one
Mr. Catania,
What I found interesting about latest reply was the fact that you did
nothing more than restate your previous comment, basically that the
effects of thermal inertia in the recorded measurements have not been
accounted for. Meanwhile, Mr. Rothwell replied to your original
comment by
The data after power off are not consistent with a temperature increase from
before power off. In fact there is a steady decline from before power of
which is completely consitent with thermal inertia. The thermal inertia is
of course more than a two minute effect in this E-Cat as examination
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Meanwhile, Mr. Rothwell replied to your original comment by posting thermal
measurements that apparently reveal the interesting fact that thermal
inertia had already been taken into account when the temperature initially
dropped
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
And (regrettably) incomplete. We know that the power to the resistor was
being cycled on and off, but not the actual duty ratio!
The duty cycle is 100% after 19:40. It says:
19:40Power was increased to the maximum value, “9.” [blue box control],
and
Hello again, Mr. Catania,
I realize I'm just as guilty of using this term as you, but IMO the
continued use of the phrase, thermal inertia to explain the
interesting thermal temperature changes tends to confuse the issue
more than it helps. Technically speaking, what's happening here has
little
Am 14.09.2011 08:55, schrieb Peter Gluck:
a) See the E-cat run in the self sustaining mode
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece
Here my Analysis:
At the end, when the water input valve is opened, then a mixture out of
water and steam comes out with
2011/9/14 Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com:
50% fluid water 2.5% drops 47.5% vapour
This must be noted that these estimations are when temperature was ca.
118 °C or 90 kPa overpressure. After that temperature rose to 133°C
and overpressure to 170 kPa. Therefore 60-80% of water was evaporated
and
I think it caused a rise. There is no rise. Its your imagination. The
temperature at power off is too low and must be discarded. If I bring a piece
of metal the size of an E-Cat to some temperature (and note that this takes
considerable time in the ramp up) and then I cut the power, the
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
There is one thing that irritated me. When they show the e-cat in
self-sustained mode, then I cannot hear the pump anymore. Did they stop the
pump and why?
There is no way they would stop the pump! The temperature would climb and it
would blow up.
I wrote:
I do not see what you mean. (I don't hear what you mean.) In the video,
starting around 5:00 they turn off the power. I hear the pump still running.
I mean the video minute 5, which occurred at 23:10 real-time. The pump sound
continues until the video jumps ahead to real-time 23:10.
At the end, when the water input valve is opened, then a mixture out of water
and steam comes out with remarkable pressure.
Now, how can we have pressure when the steam outlet is still open?
This troubled me too and I found it unexplainable until I thought that the
valve, valve stem and metal
They admit themselves that steam quality could be as low as 59%. The
pressure in the E-Cat is probably near atmospheric.
- Original Message -
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at
Pump was stopped at 23:10
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:04 PM
Subject: [Vo]:The pump was left running during the self-sustaining event
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
There is one
Am 14.09.2011 21:09, schrieb Jed Rothwell:
I wrote:
I do not see what you mean. (I don't hear what you mean.) In the
video, starting around 5:00 they turn off the power. I hear the
pump still running.
I mean the video minute 5, which occurred at 23:10 real-time. The pump
sound
Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de wrote:
I mean the video minute 5, which occurred at 23:10 real-time. The pump sound
continues until the video jumps ahead to real-time 23:10.
Yes, I have seen it now. I was in error, sorry.
I got it wrong, too. Minute 5 is real-time 23:35.
It is a shame
On Sep 14, 2011, at 6:11 AM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
See the E-cat run in self-sustained mode
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece
[snip]
This video also disproofs wet steam hypothesis as steam and hot
water are clearly separated. There is definitely not Abd's
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com
mailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Meanwhile, Mr. Rothwell replied to your original comment by posting
thermal measurements that apparently reveal the interesting fact
that thermal inertia had already been taken into account
2011/9/14 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
I have to wonder if anyone associated with Rossi ever
going to actually do calorimetry on the output?
I will do it soon. Actually I am right now writing it. There are
plenty of ways to do calorimetry. Not all ways are written in the
engineer's
JC stated:
(and note that this takes considerable time in the ramp up)
Where he is referring to the long time it takes to ramp up the E-Cat's
internal temperature on startup.
Mr. Catania, do you realize that the electrical power into the E-Cat's
resistance heater was NOT started at 100%, it
2011/9/14 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Meanwhile, Mr. Rothwell replied to your original comment by posting
thermal measurements that apparently reveal the interesting fact that
thermal inertia had already been taken into
At 09:52 AM 9/14/2011, Rich Murray wrote:
Richard M. Any relation, I wonder?
September 14th, 2011 at 3:33 AM
Dear Mr. Andrea Rossi,
If you could spare a bit of time, I have a few questions.
1)Could you please inform us as to the reactor core volume of the new
E-Cat modules?
A new version of this report has been uploaded:
*Test of Energy Catalyzer, Bologna, September 7, 2011* Analysis of
calorimetry
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3264365.ece/BINARY/Report+E-cat+test+September+7+%28pdf%29
The new version says QUOTE:
22:35 Power to the resistance was cut
At 01:55 PM 9/14/2011, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
We know that the Setting is referring to the
duty cycle, but we do not know exactly what the
relationship is
since 9 is the MAXimum setting,
and Lewan states power was at this point
constantly switched on, then a setting of 9
is
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Lewan did report that at setting 5 the ON and OFF times were equal.
So taking the duty cycle as PLC/9 is about as good as we can guess.
Lewan wrote that PLC/9 is full cycle. Also, that is a single digit decimal
display. It don't go any higher than 9. Nine
On Sep 14, 2011, at 12:29 AM, Peter Heckert wrote:
Am 14.09.2011 10:08, schrieb Horace Heffner:
It is not possible to put enough lead in the device to suppress
the 1.33 MeV gammas from cobalt to even a non-lethal level -
provided there is enough cobalt to sustain a 15 kW reaction at one
For once? I only been saying that one thing- many times. But you'd better
understand that from first principles not from a typo.
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at
Noisy, innit?
Of course, you could hide a Fermi Pile in that big box now. ;-)
T
On Sep 14, 2011, at 12:44 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/9/14 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
I have to wonder if anyone associated with Rossi ever
going to actually do calorimetry on the output?
I will do it soon. Actually I am right now writing it. There are
plenty of ways to do
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Noisy, innit?
Of course, you could hide a Fermi Pile in that big box now. ;-)
Well, maybe if you used Plutonium.
T
Well, at a setting of 9 you have the same temp rise in 35 minutes as
temperature fall in 35 minutes after power-off.
- Original Message -
From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
Wrong, nothing like that mass is necessary.
- Original Message -
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
2011/9/14 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
OrionWorks - Steven
On 2011-09-14 23:18, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Lewan wrote that PLC/9 is full cycle. Also, that is a single digit
decimal display. It don't go any higher than 9. Nine is it. Back in the
day it would have gone all hexadecimal on you: 9, A, B, C, D, E, F.
The programmers would smile knowingly and the
Could be significant. LOL. With the glitches and inaccuracies I see in this
data I doubt anything that small could be considered significant. I doubt there
is even hydriding occuring. Thermal inertis explains it. Definitely I won;t let
you ascribe a 0.7C for 5 min glitch to CF. That would be
They probably go from 80 to 100% in going from 8 to 9. So its obvious that
thermal inertia would take it out about 2hrs.
- Original Message -
From: Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
From Catania:
For once? I only been saying that one thing- many times. But you'd better
understand that from first principles not from a typo.
From: Jed Rothwell
Okay, that's probably a typo, as shown in the video. For once
Catania is correct. The temperature did not drop suddenly and
then
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:11 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
The implication I derive from Mr. Catania's response is
that he does not often seem to consider the possibility that his own
crafted assessments might occasionally be prone to similar mistakes.
It
What was personally communicated to me by JR is, of course, beyond SVJ's
ken. You seem to keen to overllok data which shows up the obvious flaw in
your CF bias.
- Original Message -
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday,
If you want the response from Sun Tzu study it yourself. If you have nothing
to say why refer me to Sun Tzu. Are you saying he does have something to
say?
- Original Message -
From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:22 PM
When Aristotle explains in general terms what he tries to do in his
philosophical works, he says he is looking for first principles (or
origins; archai):
In every systematic inquiry (methodos) where there are first principles,
or causes, or elements, knowledge and science result from acquiring
Hi Horrace e.a.,
On 14-9-2011 23:40, Horace Heffner wrote:
In any case, I think there is no reasonable possibility of a Co60
source of any possible significance being hidden behind the 2 cm lead
shielding. However, there are various other radioactive materials
that very well might be hidden
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Joe Catania zrosumg...@aol.com wrote:
If you want the response from Sun Tzu study it yourself.
I have read the Art of War three times in my career of three decades
and learned much each time.
Regarding SVJ's ken, his art is his self awareness and his
From JONP
Andrea Rossi
September 14th, 2011 at 4:19 PM
Dear AB:
Bologna: already in operation the RD, at its initial steps. Uppsala:
sooner than expected you will have news.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
mic
Hi Fran,
Thank you for your many well-thought out responses. Recently, however, I think
you have been making the underlying faulty assumption that equal and opposite
forces cannot indirectly result in a continuous net force on an objects.
Remember (Was it Huckleberry Finn?) I reckon there's
FYI:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-nanomaterial-hydrogen-storage.html
Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute are working to optimize a
promising new nanomaterial called nanoblades for use in hydrogen storage.
During their testing of the new material, they have discovered that it can
If the input water is municipal water, then it contains minerals,
which will deposit out as boiler scale within the device, changing its
temperature flow characteristics and internal geometry -- for
instance, partially blocking and thus constricting the smallest outlet
diameter, increasing the
Excellent observation! If this was a closed system with no FLOWING WATER
EXITING THE SYSTEM you would have a point. As it is you have only discredited
your argument about thermal inertia. Congratulations!
I find your hand waving arguments completely unconvincing. Please describe in
detail
Its a first principle.
- Original Message -
From: Finlay MacNab
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
Excellent observation! If this was a closed system with no FLOWING WATER
EXITING THE SYSTEM you
You're trying to be too exacting. I'm pointing out facts. Because I'm not
giving you a equation of everything dosen't mean thermal inertia has been ruled
out. Thus you've made a grave philosophical error. It means its thermal inertia
but I haven't given you the equation. Thermal inertia is a
New self-sustaining test was far superior to previous E-Cat tests. It
gave us very good quality data and also the steam quality issue was
finally resolved hopefully even for the most hard headed critics. Test
clearly shows that steam quality was ca. 99-98% as it is the case with
all water boilers.
The following post seems to be utterly out of touch with reality, a
total fantasy. It is shocking to read. I don't know whether to
respond or not.
The claims made for months that all the water was being converted to
steam has been utterly crushed!
Krivit was clearly right on his seven
2011/9/15 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
The claims made for months that all the water was being converted to steam
has been utterly crushed!
Krivit was clearly right on his seven points.
True, but his seven points had nothing to do with Rossi, but it was
all to do with Levi and
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