Re: [Vo]:In vitro meat production
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:45 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I hope that the scientists can achieve the look and taste of normal meats. It would be difficult to eat fabricated meat products unless they closely resemble the real thing. I suppose that people can learn to accept whatever is placed before them as food, but thus far there is little interest in eating insect protein that is available in great quantities. Unfortunately, some of us that have been around a while have become accustomed to eating specific items and have high expectations. Can't be any worse than Chicken McNuggets®! Maybe we should register some new trademarks . . . how about iBeef. Sounds like my employees' normal day. ePig? T
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
From Rossi: Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers for the first generation of the domestic E-Cats and of the 1 MW plants. It is possible that a simple PLC/PAC could have been chosen. I don't think stabilization would be that big a challenge. All Rossi needed was some feedback. T
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Wolf From Rossi: Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers for the first generation of the domestic E-Cats and of the 1 MW plants. It is possible that a simple PLC/PAC could have been chosen. I don't think stabilization would be that big a challenge. All Rossi needed was some feedback. T
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? If you are using a $20,000 instrument to find a solution and realize a series of logic gates will suffice for $350, why would you continue to use the more expensive device? T
RE: [Vo]:In vitro meat production
From David and Terry: I hope that the scientists can achieve the look and taste of normal meats. It would be difficult to eat fabricated meat products unless they closely resemble the real thing. I suppose that people can learn to accept whatever is placed before them as food, but thus far there is little interest in eating insect protein thatis available in great quantities. Unfortunately, some of us that have been around a while have become accustomed to eating specific items and have high expectations. Can't be any worse than Chicken McNuggets®! Maybe we should register some new trademarks . . . how about iBeef. Sounds like my employees' normal day. Everything we eat is an acquired taste. I use SILK (a soy product) as a milk substitute on my cereal in the morning. I don't kid myself that SILK tastes like milk. It doesn't. It tasts like... SILK, a soy by-product. Once I got that concept through my head I was ok with the way it tasted. I would predict that we will acquire a whole subset of new culinary tasts that we will become accustomed to. Hopefully, the newer generation of food stock will be healthier for us to consume as well. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:In vitro meat production
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:22 AM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: I use SILK (a soy product) as a milk substitute on my cereal in the morning. I don't kid myself that SILK tastes like milk. It doesn't. It tasts like... SILK, a soy by-product. Once I got that concept through my head I was ok with the way it tasted. I like SILK; but, am a bit concerned about all the estrogen in soy. Better than BGH and who knows what in our government approved milk. Recently in the news about non-government approved milk: http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/2012/01/michael_taylor_fda_petition.php T
[Vo]:Defkalion Responds to Dick
http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=1113p=6448#p6448 (third message on page) excerpt: We requested for a Skype conference call with Mr Smith, similar to what he had requested from Mr Rossi. Mr Smith declined our offer. Strangely, when Mr Rossi declined Mr Smith, Mr Smith called Mr Rossi a scam. Should we considerthe same of Mr Smith? :-) T
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
I knew a pathological liar when I was younger, she was one of the smartest people I have ever met, but would lie to no benefit other than to make herself look better or garner sympathy from the bad things she said had happened to her. I didn't realise it at first, thinking she had had a lot of bad luck, but after knowing her for a year I realised that while the individual anecdotes and stories were believable, when examined closely there were a lot of inconsistencies, and taken together as having all happened to the same person it was unbelievable - just an intricate web of exaggerations and lies. She also had a history of moving towns ditching old friends and making new ones every few years in order to (I now surmise) cover her tracks. Before I had had enough on those times I did call her out on it she would never admit to anything, but always go on attack or come up with some new story to cover herself. Sound familiar? I think that Rossi is getting to the point where he has embellished statements and claims so much over the last 12 months that he can no longer keep them all straight in his head. The internet has a long memory, and he is having to backtrack to get out of the worst of the contradictions and exaggerations that he has created (I think blaming translation issues is disingenuous at best). The stories, promises and claims are getting bigger to distract from the earlier mis-steps, even while he fails to deliver any tangible progress. This is unfortunate because he is having to devote so much time to covering up the holes in his stories (and quite possibly his investor's concerns) that I think it is now costing him any chance of progressing the technology. I think it likely that Rossi has made an important breakthrough, though my feeling is that he has exaggerated some measure of performance greatly (be it gain, power output, duration of run, no radiation or some combination of these). He may have even fooled himself with his steam based calorimetry and found that he wasn't producing the power he thought he was. His failure to demonstrate successfully to the several hard-nosed scientific observer teams that he has tried to establish commercial links with (Defkalion, US group) in August-September is pretty telling and I think he is now trapped by the story he has told to the point that he feels that he cannot reveal the true situation without totally destroying his credibility, he instead trying to buy time to fix whatever problem he has. I hoped for better from Defkalion, though I have growing doubts about them too now. They claim a 5kW reactor Ø40mmx100mm, and at a temperature of 400°C if exposed to the air it would only radiate and convect a few hundred watts. But their press release states that they intend to isolate it for the coming tests (I think they mean insulate) and are not using liquid cooling but may blow air though it to cool it, so power output is likely to be limited to 10's-100's of Watts. It would be very easy to implement crude air flow calorimetry ($100 and perhaps 1 hour of work to cover the reactor with a plastic sheet, blow air through and measure the temperature rise and flow rate with a cheap thermometer and anemometer). So what is going on? Why are they isolating the reactor? Are they trying to hide a performance short-fall too? It is getting very frustrating. We have reports from Brillouin, Arata, Miley, Ahern, Celani, Piantelli, Focardi et al of pretty substantial outputs and gains. And we hope for much better from Rossi and Defkalion, but even if there are flaws or performance short-falls, knowing exactly what the performance is would give the world more chance to assess, experiment, understand and improve upon what has been achieved. On 20 February 2012 12:42, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Wolf From Rossi: Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers for the first generation of the domestic E-Cats and of the 1 MW plants. It is possible that a simple PLC/PAC could have been chosen. I don't think stabilization would be that big a challenge. All Rossi needed was some feedback. T
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote: So what is going on? Why are they isolating the reactor? Are they trying to hide a performance short-fall too? It is getting very frustrating. PDGT will demonstrate their reactor generates heat whereas a control reactor with the same inputs does not. A fine first step, IMO. Those of us who have been deeply involved for almost 22 years are not frustrated. We are patient and savoring the sweet taste hoping it does not turn bitter. T
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Responds to Dick
From Terry: (third message on page) excerpt: We requested for a Skype conference call with Mr Smith, similar to what he had requested from Mr Rossi. Mr Smith declined our offer. Strangely, when Mr Rossi declined Mr Smith, Mr Smith called Mr Rossi a scam. Should we consider the same of Mr Smith? :-) Jed predicted Dick would start squirming. ...I sed to watch Dick very carefully to how he responds. Squeal like a pig! ;-) - from Deliverance Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:NI platforms can be used for Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) applications
Hello group, I see that Steven Krivit posted the following email in the comment section of his latest blogpost, where he reported (through the words of Julia Betts, corporate communications and investor relations manager for National Instruments) that NI is denying any current business relationship with Rossi. It appears he isn't sure (?) if this email is entirely genuine or not. Perhaps people could call up ms. Betts to confirm? Fantastic information from National Instruments otherwise. http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/02/18/national-instruments-denies-relationship-with-rossi/ (scroll down below) Subject: Re: Need info please – Please just one more question. Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 13:05:42 -0600 From: Julia Betts To: [Mystery Author] Per our previous statement from November, we were only in discussions with the Leonardo Corporation regarding the use of National Instruments engineering tools. Currently Leonardo Corporation/Andrea Rossi is not a customer of National Instruments. NI platforms can be used for Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) applications, particularly the National Instruments Reconfigurable I/O (RIO) platform that is based on FPGA (field programmable gate array) technology for the control and monitoring needs. The FPGAs are programmable integrated circuits that offer true parallelism, high-speed analysis of data and a high level of reliability needed for control and monitoring applications. We do think the field of LENR is a very intriguing research area that has potential to impact the energy crisis that is facing the world. NI believes in providing the right tools and platforms to enable engineers and scientists to focus on innovation and solving the grand engineering challenges such as energy from fusion, cancer therapy in the field of medicine and smart grids for better urban infrastructure, to name a few. We are working with Universities and Research Centers around the world to empower researchers and scientists who are working on magnetic confined fusion, inertial confined fusion and Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (some times called “cold fusion”) Hope this clarifies. Julia Betts – Corporate Communications and Investor Relations Manager – National Instruments – 512-659-9643 (mobile) Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Time Crystals
Yes this is another relativistic perspective of why gas loaded into the lattice of a time crystal APPEARS to take on fractional/hydrino/inverse Rydberg states. Once the atom achieves ground state it cant go any lower but it can be displaced on the time axis appearing to get smaller in either direction away from the present but I disagree with the statement [snip] Yet it wouldnt violate the second law of thermodynamics because the crystal would be in its lowest energy state; no useful energy could be extracted from it. [/snip] It certainly doesnt have to violate the 2nd law to extract energy if it taps zero point energy but it does require an asymmetry which opposes the return of these time displaced atoms into the present. My posit is that covalent bonds formed while the atoms are displaced oppose this return while atoms do not forcing Zero point energy to help disassociate the molecules so they can work their way back to the present the difficulty is setting the stage to promote an asymmetric path where are atoms are being displaced in time from one point while displaced molecules that formed from these displaced atoms are finding their disassociation threshold being reduced By the same random gas motion we are told is unexploitable at the macro scale or would require a maxwellian demon . My point is a time based variant of the maxwellian demon is possible and is responsible for the anomalous heat reported since the days of Langmuir. Fran [Vo]:Time Crystals Axil Axil Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:07:03 -0800 Time Crystals Reference: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2539.pdf And a companion paper http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2537.pdf It sounds like the title of a bad fantasy movie time crystals but it could be the next big thing in theoretical physics which might be worth the time and pain to rap ones mind around this new weird subject. Those who are interested in zero point energy should expand their interest to include time crystals as a motive principle in the weird and unexplained... ideas possibly related to the realm of perpetual motion machines. In two new papers, Nobel Prizewinning physicist Frank Wilczek lays out the mathematics of how an object moving in its lowest zero point energy state could experience a sort of structure in time. Such a time crystal would be the temporal equivalent of an everyday crystal, in which atoms occupy positions that repeat periodically in space. The work, done partly with physicist Alfred Shapere of the University of Kentucky, appeared in part on February 12 in arXiv.org. We dont know whether such things do exist in nature, but the surprise is that they can exist, says Maulik Parikh, a physicist at Arizona State University in Tempe. Like Murphy Law states: If it can happen, it will happen,. Like any new idea ,scientists dont know how important time crystals may turn out to be, or whether they have any practical application at all. But Wilczek, of MIT, says the concept reminds him of the excitement he felt when he helped describe a new class of fundamental particles, called anyons, in the early 1980s. I had very much the same kind of feeling as Im having here, he says, that I had a found a new logical possibility for how matter might behave that opened up a new world with many possible directions. Wilczek dreamed up time crystals after teaching a class about classifying crystals in three dimensions and wondering why that structure couldnt extend to the fourth dimension time. To visualize a time crystal, think of Earth looping back to its same location in space every 365¼ days; the planet repeats itself periodically as it moves through time. But a true time crystal is made not of a planet but of an object in its lowest energy state affected by zero point energy, like an electron stripped of all possible energy; zero point matter is you please. This object could endlessly loop in time, just as electrons in a superconductor could theoretically flow through space for all eternity. Its doing what it wants to do, and what it wants to do is move, says Wilczek. In a sense the time crystal would be a perpetual motion machine: If scientists could build one in a lab, it would run forever. Yet it wouldnt violate the second law of thermodynamics because the crystal would be in its lowest energy state; no useful energy could be extracted from it. Wilczek is already dreaming of extending the time crystal concept into imaginary time, a theoretical concept of the fourth dimension that runs in a different direction than the one people experience. I dont know if this will be of lasting value at all, he says, but Im having fun. And like frank, all we want to do here is have some fun.
Re: [Vo]:NI platforms can be used for Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) applications
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: Fantastic information from National Instruments otherwise. Like all revolutionary new ideas, the subject has had to pass through three stages, which may be summed up by these reactions: (1) 'It's crazy --- don't waste my time.' (2) 'It's possible, but it's not worth doing.' (3) 'I always said it was a good idea.' -- Arthur C. Clarke. Next---The Planets!, Report on Planet Three. 1972 Looks like we are moving to stage III. T
[Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
One hundred years ago in 1912 a new type of 5 KW wireless was introduced. It had a spinning wheel with arcing contacts that broke the sparking RF circuit up into audio pulses. It modulated the AM band radio frequency signal. The system transmitted a beep beep beep instead of a crackle crackle crackle. It was easy to hear and the sound of the signal was much different from other natural sources of RF static. Those signals are out there just now at 100 light years in 2012. Will we soon be getting a reply? Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Earning a place for your business on an approved vendor list can be your ticket to winning more government-contract work. Nearly all prime contractors maintain lists of preferred vendors and subcontractors based on the quality and timeliness of their work and other attributes. Many businesses work diligently to get on these lists because they put these businesses one step closer to participating in a government procurement. If secrecy is involved, the approved vendor has been cleared to do secret work with employees that have been vetted to the appropriate security level. The vender also assigns a security officer that maintains a confidential file system in a secured location within the vender’s facility and handles and maintains the security clearances of the employees. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Wolf From Rossi: Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers for the first generation of the domestic E-Cats and of the 1 MW plants. It is possible that a simple PLC/PAC could have been chosen. I don't think stabilization would be that big a challenge. All Rossi needed was some feedback. T
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
On 02/20/2012 11:51 AM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: One hundred years ago in 1912 a new type of 5 KW wireless was introduced. It had a spinning wheel with arcing contacts that broke the sparking RF circuit up into audio pulses. It modulated the AM band radio frequency signal. The system transmitted a beep beep beep instead of a crackle crackle crackle. It was easy to hear and the sound of the signal was much different from other natural sources of RF static. Those signals are out there just now at 100 light years in 2012. Will we soon be getting a reply? Frank Znidarsic No, we will not. But if we will, here's hoping that reply will not be in all caps, as we will have a hard time convincing people that these aliens really exist. Andre
RE: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
EARTHLINGS: I'VE BEEN GETTING ALL KINDS OF BEEPING, STATIC ASKING IF I REALLY EXIST! THIS IS FOOLERY. ASK ANY REAL SCIENTIST IN THE GALAXY (NOT THOSE SNAKE-HEADED-ASTRONOMERS OF EARTH). THERE IS NO QUESTION BUT WE EXIST. I NO LONGER REPLY TO SILLY BEEPS. REGARDS, ZAPHOD. Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:37:06 -0400 From: andre_vor...@blums.nl To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens On 02/20/2012 11:51 AM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: One hundred years ago in 1912 a new type of 5 KW wireless was introduced. It had a spinning wheel with arcing contacts that broke the sparking RF circuit up into audio pulses. It modulated the AM band radio frequency signal. The system transmitted a beep beep beep instead of a crackle crackle crackle. It was easy to hear and the sound of the signal was much different from other natural sources of RF static. Those signals are out there just now at 100 light years in 2012. Will we soon be getting a reply? Frank Znidarsic No, we will not. But if we will, here's hoping that reply will not be in all caps, as we will have a hard time convincing people that these aliens really exist. Andre
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
My suspicion is that our use of radio for communication would be considered extremely ancient to any civilizations that may be monitoring us. The changes in carrier modulation that have occurred just within the last 50 years has been astounding. Any relatively nearby civilization(100 light years) would most likely be millions of years removed from us in technology. I can not even begin to speculate as to where our world will find itself in that amount of time if we are still around to ponder things. So, are there other means of communications that exist of which we are unaware? How well do we in fact understand the physical world? It was not that long ago when the laser was inventedsuch a simple in principle device that could have been discovered over 100 years earlier. Now we are watching expectantly as LENR devices are about to become accepted within the physics community so reluctantly. On many occasions I give consideration to the questions that most haunt me: How many wonderful discoveries are there waiting for us to uncover? How can I help to bring these into fruition? Only time will reveal what lies just beyond our reach, but I think the journey along the path toward the future will be exciting. Dave -Original Message- From: fznidarsic fznidar...@aol.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 10:52 am Subject: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens One hundred years ago in 1912 a new type of 5 KW wireless was introduced. It had a spinning wheel with arcing contacts that broke the sparking RF circuit up into audio pulses. It modulated the AM band radio frequency signal. The system transmitted a beep beep beep instead of a crackle crackle crackle. It was easy to hear and the sound of the signal was much different from other natural sources of RF static. Those signals are out there just now at 100 light years in 2012. Will we soon be getting a reply? Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Advanced civilizations may not use RF communications. Or the signal may be so compressed it looks like noise. However, they will recognize it when they detect it. If they use radio telescopes they will probably realize they have intercepted a signal from a civilization, and not a natural signal. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
This is an interesting discussion that mirrors my thinking as well. I would expect that a civilization millions of years ahead of ours would have figured a way to construct biological appendages as needed for the tasks at hand. Our somewhat limited understanding of the biological processes is advancing at a rapid rate and one day it will be standard procedure to regrow any injured organs as required. On the other hand, it might be more convenient to develop mechanical components to assist our future selves since the power to weight ratio can be much higher than evolution has generated thus far. Let's just hope that it is not typical for an advanced civilization to end itself with super weapons once it reaches a certain point in its development! Dave -Original Message- From: LORENHEYER lorenhe...@aol.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:07 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens It is very highly likely that advanced civilizations have times long-past bsoleted the mode of technology and/or means of transmitting receiving nformation. More than likely there are countless signals from civilizations ike ours traveling thru space right now, and we don't even know it take t from there as to what we're percieving it as. Maybe, just white noise r background radiation who know's. One thing for sure I'd say, is hat what we think refard as ET or Aliens, are the end product of at countless illions og years of technologuical progression.. afterall our common ncestor is Chimp because it's been extablished that our DNA is about 98% the am, and so what would someone a million, 10 million, 100 million and/or even ulti- billions of years look like. Just what would have transpired over hat amount of time and made everything we regard as typical or normal, as rchaic as the stone-aged caveman, and/or, as extinct as a Dinosaur . Maybe o someone who is so capable and long since developed the technology that is nabling them to BE IN Space, as opposed to being down here among us umanosaurs, would simply say to us (if they actually used sound or a verbal anguage 'perse) See you later Alligator!,,, After while rocodile... r because they are operating in a whole complete highly sophisticated apacity its Mind over matter my dear watson.Why, not only would we ot even believe it, we wouldn't even likely suspect what it meant Now, I ase all this on what I have seen with my own two eyes over the years, and herefore am 100 % absolutely convinced that so-called modern man is indeed o far-back in time that IT is what is unbelievable. To me, UFO no longer tands for Unidentified Flying Object, because I 'know' and therefore refer o it as an IFO, which of course stands for Infallible Foremost Obscurity. /HTML
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Lets just hope that they do not file a complaint with the UCC(Universal Communications Commission) demanding an end to our interference. Dave -Original Message- From: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: Vortex Listserve vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:07 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens EARTHLINGS: I'VE BEEN GETTING ALL KINDS OF BEEPING, STATIC ASKING IF I REALLY EXIST! THIS IS FOOLERY. ASK ANY REAL SCIENTIST IN THE GALAXY (NOT THOSE SNAKE-HEADED-ASTRONOMERS OF EARTH). THERE IS NO QUESTION BUT WE EXIST. I NO LONGER REPLY TO SILLY BEEPS. REGARDS, ZAPHOD. Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:37:06 -0400 From: andre_vor...@blums.nl To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens On 02/20/2012 11:51 AM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: One hundred years ago in 1912 a new type of 5 KW wireless was introduced. It had a spinning wheel with arcing contacts that broke the sparking RF circuit up into audio pulses. It modulated the AM band radio frequency signal. The system transmitted a beep beep beep instead of a crackle crackle crackle. It was easy to hear and the sound of the signal was much different from other natural sources of RF static. Those signals are out there just now at 100 light years in 2012. Will we soon be getting a reply? Frank Znidarsic No, we will not. But if we will, here's hoping that reply will not be in all caps, as we will have a hard time convincing people that these aliens really exist. Andre
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Advanced civilizations may not use RF communications. Or the signal may be so compressed it looks like noise. Our cell phones already do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_division_multiple_access T
RE: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
This is a bit off topic to the thread (ok, way off), but speaking of advanced civilizations on earth which we did not know about till very recently, this one is a full 6000 years ahead of what we thought was the first advanced ones (i.e. the Fertile Crescent or Egypt). Look at the detail in the carvings. I am blown away by this ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe If they should find a copper tool or so-called Baghdad battery in the relics, it will be only slightly more astonishing than the obvious one. How could we have missed 6000 years of history which is lost between this, and what follows, which is possibly less advanced? From: David Roberson This is an interesting discussion that mirrors my thinking as well. I would expect that a civilization millions of years ahead of ours would have figured a way to construct biological appendages as needed for the tasks at hand. Our somewhat limited understanding of the biological processes is advancing at a rapid rate and one day it will be standard procedure to regrow any injured organs as required. On the other hand, it might be more convenient to develop mechanical components to assist our future selves since the power to weight ratio can be much higher than evolution has generated thus far. Let's just hope that it is not typical for an advanced civilization to end itself with super weapons once it reaches a certain point in its development! Dave -Original Message- From: LORENHEYER It is very highly likely that advanced civilizations have times long-past obsoleted the mode of technology and/or means of transmitting receiving information. More than likely there are countless signals from civilizations like ours traveling thru space right now, and we don't even know it take it from there as to what we're percieving it as. Maybe, just white noise or background radiation who know's. One thing for sure I'd say, is that what we think refard as ET or Aliens, are the end product of at countless millions og years of technologuical progression.. afterall our common ancestor is Chimp because it's been extablished that our DNA is about 98% the sam, and so what would someone a million, 10 million, 100 million and/or even multi- billions of years look like. Just what would have transpired over that amount of time and made everything we regard as typical or normal, as archaic as the stone-aged caveman, and/or, as extinct as a Dinosaur . Maybe to someone who is so capable and long since developed the technology that is enabling them to BE IN Space, as opposed to being down here among us humanosaurs, would simply say to us (if they actually used sound or a verbal language 'perse) See you later Alligator!,,, After while Crocodile... or because they are operating in a whole complete highly sophisticated capacity its Mind over matter my dear watson.Why, not only would we not even believe it, we wouldn't even likely suspect what it meant Now, I base all this on what I have seen with my own two eyes over the years, and therefore am 100 % absolutely convinced that so-called modern man is indeed so far-back in time that IT is what is unbelievable. To me, UFO no longer stands for Unidentified Flying Object, because I 'know' and therefore refer to it as an IFO, which of course stands for Infallible Foremost Obscurity. /HTML attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Let's just hope that it is not typical for an advanced civilization to end itself with super weapons once it reaches a certain point in its development! Dave Thank you Dave, I've been thinking about this in the present contest. The West controls the world, we have Jaydams, F22's, drones, info tech war, we will win and it will be over fast with little fan fair. The US reigns supreme. back up 100 years...beep beep beep We have dreadnoughts, steam trains, cannons, biplanes, zeppelins and, or course, the Maximum machine gun. War will be quick and fast in our (the UK in this case) favor. What happened? It was very bad for the next 1/2 century and I hope it does not repeat again with Iran as a the flash point. I personally love the Chinese people and would never want to fight with them. I hope they side with us. Least we forget. I know this off topic but nothing much is happening with Rossi right now. Frank Z -Original Message- From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:22 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens This is an interesting discussion that mirrors my thinking as well. I would expect that a civilization millions of years ahead of ours would have figured a way to construct biological appendages as needed for the tasks at hand. Our somewhat limited understanding of the biological processes is advancing at a rapid rate and one day it will be standard procedure to regrow any injured organs as required. On the other hand, it might be more convenient to develop mechanical components to assist our future selves since the power to weight ratio can be much higher than evolution has generated thus far. Let's just hope that it is not typical for an advanced civilization to end itself with super weapons once it reaches a certain point in its development! Dave -Original Message- From: LORENHEYER lorenhe...@aol.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 12:07 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens It is very highly likely that advanced civilizations have times long-past obsoleted the mode of technology and/or means of transmitting receiving information. More than likely there are countless signals from civilizations like ours traveling thru space right now, and we don't even know it take it from there as to what we're percieving it as. Maybe, just white noise or background radiation who know's. One thing for sure I'd say, is that what we think refard as ET or Aliens, are the end product of at countless millions og years of technologuical progression.. afterall our common ancestor is Chimp because it's been extablished that our DNA is about 98% the sam, and so what would someone a million, 10 million, 100 million and/or even multi- billions of years look like. Just what would have transpired over that amount of time and made everything we regard as typical or normal, as archaic as the stone-aged caveman, and/or, as extinct as a Dinosaur . Maybe to someone who is so capable and long since developed the technology that is enabling them to BE IN Space, as opposed to being down here among us humanosaurs, would simply say to us (if they actually used sound or a verbal language 'perse) See you later Alligator!,,, After while Crocodile... or because they are operating in a whole complete highly sophisticated capacity its Mind over matter my dear watson.Why, not only would we not even believe it, we wouldn't even likely suspect what it meant Now, I base all this on what I have seen with my own two eyes over the years, and therefore am 100 % absolutely convinced that so-called modern man is indeed so far-back in time that IT is what is unbelievable. To me, UFO no longer stands for Unidentified Flying Object, because I 'know' and therefore refer to it as an IFO, which of course stands for Infallible Foremost Obscurity. /HTML
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: This is a bit off topic to the thread (ok, way off), but speaking of advanced civilizations on earth which we did not know about till very recently, this one is a full 6000 years ahead of what we thought was the first advanced ones (i.e. the Fertile Crescent or Egypt). Look at the detail in the carvings. I am blown away by this ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe Graham Hancock notes the water erosion on the body of the sphinx as evidence it was carved 12,000 years ago when the area was wet. T
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
Alain, I am trying to find minimal semi-classical models for W-L theory. Quantum W-L theory requires intense local e-m fields. Metallic nano-structures can super-focus coulomb and magnetic fields. Surface probes show huge amplifications at nano-sized hotspots - even after 2-Dimensional filtering which smudges and attenuates peaks. Does a hotspot electron passing free protons (with equal, opposite momentum) or an immobile proton experience enough ampere force long enough to overcome the 780 KeV barrier, producing a ULMN? Using classical physics, the two references I cited indicate that in nanostructures, conduction electrons' momentum, inertial mass and magnetic energy can be vastly larger than in macroscopic circuits. Maybe a semi-classical analysis can yield reasonable results - if actual field strengths, charge densities, electron velocities,... are used? Are entanglement, nonlocality, Bose condenscation, ... really needed? I'm uncertain. Good data is hard to find. Thanks for the reply, Lou Pagnucco On Sun, 19 Feb 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote: if you red WL theory, they say that the neutrons are generated from coherents pairs of p+e, and the result is a group of possible neutrons widely distributed among the coherents p, thus slow and delocalized a kind of schodinger cat gang most are alive, but one is dead, but nobody knows which, so the dead cat is wide, thus slow 2012/2/16 pagnu...@htdconnect.com W-L LENR theory claims ultra-low momentum neutrons (ULMNs) are created - quite surprising if due to high kinetic energy e-p collisions. Overcoming the electroweak effective potential barrier that repels an electron from a proton (= udu 'quark bag') requires 780 KeV. Can slow (non-relativistic) electrons climb the barrier by borrowing just enough potential magnetic (but no kinetic) energy - leaving ULMNs? As shown in [1], in nanowires. almost no conduction electron energy is kinetic. Almost all is likely stored in virtual exchange photons. On metal hydride nano-particle surfaces, plasma electrons and protons can oscillate in parallel and opposite directions . -- When velocity = 0, coulomb force brings some e-p pairs together -- as velocity increases, magnetic ampere force pinches e-p pairs closer Semiclassically, this increasing ampere force is equivalent to a rising linear potential in a time-varying Schroedinger equation - Graphically: --- PLASMONIC OScILLATION: TRANSFERING 'MAGNETIC ENERGY' MIN PLASMON AMPLITUDE AMPLITUDE INCREASES MIN AMPERE FORCE AMPERE FORCE RISES MIN LINEAR POTENTIAL LINEAR POTENTIAL RISES ^ ^^ ^ . .. . \ . \ .\ .\. \ .\. \ . \ e \.+-+ +-- \ . +-+ +- \ . +-+ +- |:+- \ .| | | ^ \ . | | |\.e| | ||:| \ .| | | |\ . | | | \_| | ||:| \ .| | | | \ | | | | ||V| \ | | |780 \ e| | | | || | \| |u|KeV \_| |u| |u||u| \ | |d| | |d| |d||d| -- ULMN (ddu) \ e| |u| | |u| |u||u| + neutrino \_| |_| V |_| |_||_| --- An electron arriving at a potential wall is pushed forward by the magnetic coupling to millions of conduction electrons and back-reacts by borrowing some of their collective momentum (Newton's 3rd Law). Ref[2] shows that electrons in nanowires can acquire enormous inertial mass from this coupling - distinct, I believe, from relavistic mass - which may make the surface plasma appear as an extremely viscous fluid to gamma rays, and could trap most high-energy gammas. [1]How Much of Magnetic Energy is Kinetic Energy? - Kirk T. McDonald http://puhep1.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/kinetic.pdf [2]Extremely Low Frequency Plasmons in Metallic Microstructures http://www.cmth.ph.ic.ac.uk/photonics/Newphotonics/pdf/lfplslet.pdf Comments/corrections very welcome, Lou Pagnucco
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Jones sez: This is a bit off topic to the thread (ok, way off)... ... and as you well know that has never stopped the Vort Collective from engaging in a good debate! ;-) The following might be of interest to some here: Michael Cremo Forbidden Archeology http://www.mcremo.com/ http://www.mcremo.com/YASBLT_forbiddenarchaeology.pdf Some of the artifacts that have allegedly been uncovering are astonishing. I can't say that I believe in all of this stuff, but what is discussed is fascinating never the less. IMO it deserves further scrutiny. Unfortunately, that is not likely because it would be politically incorrect to do so. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Time Crystals
Axil, I just looked at the first paper http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2539.pdf and can see why you said that no useful energy could be extracted from the time crystal because it is in it's lowest energy state but just as they speculate The crystal is only half the equation like a windmill without a rotor you need gas [field or particle] and relative motion to the time crystal lattice. the apparent non-conservation is in reality a transfer to the background IOW ZPE can be extracted -not a violation of the 2nd law but rather a practical method to implement an HUP trap. [snip] 2. It is interesting to speculate that a (considerably) more elaborate quantum-mechanical system, whose states could be interpreted as collections of qubits, might be engineered to traverse, in its ground configuration, a programmed landscape of structured states in Hilbert space over time. 3. In general, fields or particles in the presence of a time crystal background will be subject to energy-changing processes, analogous to momentum-changing Umklapp processes of ordinary crystals. In either case the apparent non-conservation is in reality a transfer to the background. In our earlier model, O(1/N) corrections to the background motion arise. [/snip] I posit their math can be related to the Casimir formula where these time dilating repeating structures accumulate their force in a geometrically organized and segregated manner responsible for equal and opposite values of delta time / spatial volume. [very dilated tiny cavities or much larger volumes of space parallel to the exterior surfaces of the cavity with only tiny dilation]. The books are balanced through segregation and it requires fields or particles moving through this time crystal background being subject to energy-changing processes IOW changes in the bond state of gas particles traversing a programmed landscape [Casimir tapestry] OR the Haisch and Moddel method of Lamb pinch. The paper adds support to the Naudts paper on relativistic hydrogen inside a lattice, the claims of radioactive half lives of gas being modified in a lattice, my own relativistic interpretation of Casimir effect where virtual particles are displaced along the time axis and locally remain unaware the plates are too close for their full wavelength to fit between. Fran From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 2:06 AM To: vortex-l Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:Time Crystals Time Crystals Reference: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2539.pdf And a companion paper... http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2537.pdf It sounds like the title of a bad fantasy movie - time crystals - but it could be the next big thing in theoretical physics which might be worth the time and pain to rap one's mind around this new weird subject. Those who are interested in zero point energy should expand their interest to include time crystals as a motive principle in the weird and unexplained... ideas possibly related to the realm of perpetual motion machines. In two new papers, Nobel Prize-winning physicist Frank Wilczek lays out the mathematics of how an object moving in its lowest zero point energy state could experience a sort of structure in time. Such a time crystal would be the temporal equivalent of an everyday crystal, in which atoms occupy positions that repeat periodically in space. The work, done partly with physicist Alfred Shapere of the University of Kentucky, appeared in part on February 12 in arXiv.org. We don't know whether such things do exist in nature, but the surprise is that they can exist, says Maulik Parikh, a physicist at Arizona State University in Tempe. Like Murphy Law states: If it can happen, it will happen,. Like any new idea ,scientists don't know how important time crystals may turn out to be, or whether they have any practical application at all. But Wilczek, of MIT, says the concept reminds him of the excitement he felt when he helped describe a new class of fundamental particles, called anyons, in the early 1980s. I had very much the same kind of feeling as I'm having here, he says, that I had a found a new logical possibility for how matter might behave that opened up a new world with many possible directions. Wilczek dreamed up time crystals after teaching a class about classifying crystals in three dimensions and wondering why that structure couldn't extend to the fourth dimension - time. To visualize a time crystal, think of Earth looping back to its same location in space every 365¼ days; the planet repeats itself periodically as it moves through time. But a true time crystal is made not of a planet but of an object in its lowest energy state affected by zero point energy, like an electron stripped of all possible energy; zero point matter is you please. This object could endlessly loop in time, just as electrons in a superconductor could theoretically flow through space for all eternity. It's
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Here's some additional photos to wet the imagination! http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/ Excerpt: A metallic sphere from South Africa with three parallel grooves around its equator (photo courtesy of Roelf Marx). The sphere was found in a Precambrian mineral deposit, said to be 2.8 billion years old. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:Mysterious Metal Boxes
are appearing along the pacific northwest coast and seem to correspond with UFO sightings: http://www.huliq.com/10282/ufo-sighting-beliefs-counter-todays-science-while-new-metal-box-theory-floated Now they're disappearing. T
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Orionworks sez: Here's some additional photos to wet the imagination! http://www.forbiddenarcheology.com/ Excerpt: A metallic sphere from South Africa with three parallel grooves around its equator (photo courtesy of Roelf Marx). The sphere was found in a Precambrian mineral deposit, said to be 2.8 billion years old. Here's Wikipedia's entry on the spheres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_sphere Actually, it seems well written, and does a good job of debunking a number of prior claims, misrepresentations, and misinterpretations. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now and maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e to become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? By this I refer to a material that is not currently generating LENR reactions until the conversion is met. I ask this question because it appears that the actual LENR reactions release much more energy than that required to initiate the next one. Why are we not able to steal some energy and be on our merry way? My assumption is that the first reaction is a result of an external effect such as a cosmic ray trigger. Thanks for advancing my understanding of the phenomenon. Dave -Original Message- From: pagnucco pagnu...@htdconnect.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 3:01 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory Alain, I am trying to find minimal semi-classical models for W-L theory. uantum W-L theory requires intense local e-m fields. Metallic nano-structures can super-focus coulomb and magnetic fields. urface probes show huge amplifications at nano-sized hotspots - even fter 2-Dimensional filtering which smudges and attenuates peaks. Does a hotspot electron passing free protons (with equal, opposite omentum) or an immobile proton experience enough ampere force long enough o overcome the 780 KeV barrier, producing a ULMN? Using classical physics, the two references I cited indicate that in anostructures, conduction electrons' momentum, inertial mass and magnetic nergy can be vastly larger than in macroscopic circuits. Maybe a emi-classical analysis can yield reasonable results - if actual field trengths, charge densities, electron velocities,... are used? re entanglement, nonlocality, Bose condenscation, ... really needed? I'm uncertain. Good data is hard to find. Thanks for the reply, ou Pagnucco n Sun, 19 Feb 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote: if you red WL theory, they say that the neutrons are generated rom coherents pairs of p+e, and the result is a group of possible neutrons idely distributed among the coherents p, thus slow and delocalized kind of schodinger cat gang ost are alive, but one is dead, but nobody knows which, so the dead cat is ide, thus slow 2012/2/16 pagnu...@htdconnect.com W-L LENR theory claims ultra-low momentum neutrons (ULMNs) are created - quite surprising if due to high kinetic energy e-p collisions. Overcoming the electroweak effective potential barrier that repels an electron from a proton (= udu 'quark bag') requires 780 KeV. Can slow (non-relativistic) electrons climb the barrier by borrowing just enough potential magnetic (but no kinetic) energy - leaving ULMNs? As shown in [1], in nanowires. almost no conduction electron energy is kinetic. Almost all is likely stored in virtual exchange photons. On metal hydride nano-particle surfaces, plasma electrons and protons can oscillate in parallel and opposite directions . -- When velocity = 0, coulomb force brings some e-p pairs together -- as velocity increases, magnetic ampere force pinches e-p pairs closer Semiclassically, this increasing ampere force is equivalent to a rising linear potential in a time-varying Schroedinger equation - Graphically: --- PLASMONIC OScILLATION: TRANSFERING 'MAGNETIC ENERGY' MIN PLASMON AMPLITUDE AMPLITUDE INCREASES MIN AMPERE FORCE AMPERE FORCE RISES MIN LINEAR POTENTIAL LINEAR POTENTIAL RISES ^ ^^ ^ . .. . \ . \ .\ .\. \ .\. \ . \ e \.+-+ +-- \ . +-+ +- \ . +-+ +- |:+- \ .| | | ^ \ . | | |\.e| | ||:| \ .| | | |\ . | | | \_| | ||:| \ .| | | | \ | | | | ||V| \ | | |780 \ e| | | | || | \| |u|KeV \_| |u| |u||u| \ | |d| | |d| |d||d| -- ULMN (ddu) \ e| |u| | |u| |u||u| + neutrino \_| |_| V |_| |_||_| --- An electron arriving at a potential wall is pushed forward by the magnetic coupling to millions of conduction electrons and back-reacts by borrowing some of their collective momentum (Newton's 3rd Law). Ref[2] shows that electrons in nanowires can acquire enormous inertial mass from this coupling - distinct, I believe, from relavistic mass - which may make the surface plasma appear as an extremely viscous fluid to gamma rays, and could trap most high-energy gammas. [1]How Much of Magnetic Energy is Kinetic Energy? - Kirk T. McDonald
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:35 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Here's Wikipedia's entry on the spheres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_sphere OOPAs! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact from Oompa Loompa! T
[Vo]:LENR-CANR index project -- a darn shame this does not work
I have been busy with a million things, such as the plumbing in my house. In between, with help from Michele Comitini, I have spec'ed out some nice MySQL database methods of accessing the library. Here is one: http://lenr-canr.org/index/tabs/tabs.php This has a lot of nice feature but unfortunately it does not work. The display is wrong. There are no gridlines. Click on the Detail tab and you will see how the gridlines are supposed to look. I despair of getting this problem fixed. The ISP blames the software vendor and vice versa. It works fine on my computer running under Xampp. The first screen has some nice features. You can click on as many + signs as you like to see details, click on columns, do a simple quicksearch, or a more sophisticated search. I have been using it myself to find papers. Great stuff, if I could just make it work. I have tried another ISP but they have a different set of problems. Even worse. I may have to surrender and be assimilated into The Borg with Wordpress or one of these other wretched programs. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot
backup for some time)
Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical
distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a
distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc.
Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big
plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated.
On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote:
**
I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these
types of generating facilities for the best economy.
The risk is that govs will intervene with tax credits and regulations to
influence how and where energy is produced - this invariably leads to
distortions and inefficiencies. Tax credits and deductions for solar panels
and electric cars being notable examples.
- Original Message -
*From:* Axil Axil javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'janap...@gmail.com');
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'vortex-l@eskimo.com');
*Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:30 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
We are talking the cost effective generation of electricity here.
Let us draw proper lessens from recent history and current reality.
If the production of electric power was more cost efficient in the
individual home, then natural gas turbines would be now found in everyone’s
basement; but there are no home centric gas/electric home generation
products on the market. The big centralized natural gas turbines operated
by large electric utilities are now and will always be the low cost
provider.
The idea that the independence of the individual is critical in the
upcoming peak energy apocalypse according to the green renewable power
doctrinaire is false. So it is extremely important that this groundless
green concept must not be transferred to LENR electric power production.
NiH power production is a highly concentrated nuclear based form of power
production. In the same way as fission power, high COP and huge economies
of scale can be translated into ultra-low cost centralized electric power
production by statewide or even regional electric utilities.
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Jed Rothwell
jedrothw...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'jedrothw...@gmail.com');
wrote:
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'alain.sep...@gmail.com'); wrote:
good design, but I think it is not adapted to the need.
your design save energy, but at the cost of investment.
the structure of LENR is that it is investment that cost, not fuel.
so my vision is that classic water, moderate temperature, will will,
because it will ensure the least total cost
LENR is really a violent paradigm change in energy management.
we were preparing for starvation, and it is bonanza. . . .
Yup. Well said.
see the nuclear reactors, working at low temperature for incresed safety
and simplicity...
LENR is even less expensive about consumption.
I agree. I was going to make these points.
- Jed
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
A NiH reactor will dissipate any electric potential required to meet the 750K Ev constraint for P+E to N production as fast as it is formed. The reactor walls are grounded and EMF will flow through the hydrogen plasma to the grounded reactor walls. W+L may happen in some systems but I can’t see how it could happen in a Rossi reactor or it’s like. Hydrogen plasma will short circuit the entire L+W process. The heavy electrons will follow the heat through the hydrogen plasma right out the reactor vessel walls into the coolant. I like coherence as an explanation of cold fusion because such a system is responsive to decoherence as an energy production mechanism. In a coherent system, a cosmic ray trigger like a million other things, is an interface or interaction to the external world. This interaction is called in QM terminology decoherence. Anytime a coherent system interacts (i.e. produces energy) with the outside world, decoherence occurs. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:39 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now and maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e to become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? By this I refer to a material that is not currently generating LENR reactions until the conversion is met. I ask this question because it appears that the actual LENR reactions release much more energy than that required to initiate the next one. Why are we not able to steal some energy and be on our merry way? My assumption is that the first reaction is a result of an external effect such as a cosmic ray trigger. Thanks for advancing my understanding of the phenomenon. Dave -Original Message- From: pagnucco pagnu...@htdconnect.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 3:01 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory Alain, I am trying to find minimal semi-classical models for W-L theory. Quantum W-L theory requires intense local e-m fields. Metallic nano-structures can super-focus coulomb and magnetic fields. Surface probes show huge amplifications at nano-sized hotspots - even after 2-Dimensional filtering which smudges and attenuates peaks. Does a hotspot electron passing free protons (with equal, opposite momentum) or an immobile proton experience enough ampere force long enough to overcome the 780 KeV barrier, producing a ULMN? Using classical physics, the two references I cited indicate that in nanostructures, conduction electrons' momentum, inertial mass and magnetic energy can be vastly larger than in macroscopic circuits. Maybe a semi-classical analysis can yield reasonable results - if actual field strengths, charge densities, electron velocities,... are used? Are entanglement, nonlocality, Bose condenscation, ... really needed? I'm uncertain. Good data is hard to find. Thanks for the reply, Lou Pagnucco On Sun, 19 Feb 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote: if you red WL theory, they say that the neutrons are generated from coherents pairs of p+e, and the result is a group of possible neutrons widely distributed among the coherents p, thus slow and delocalized a kind of schodinger cat gang most are alive, but one is dead, but nobody knows which, so the dead cat is wide, thus slow 2012/2/16 pagnu...@htdconnect.com W-L LENR theory claims ultra-low momentum neutrons (ULMNs) are created - quite surprising if due to high kinetic energy e-p collisions. Overcoming the electroweak effective potential barrier that repels an electron from a proton (= udu 'quark bag') requires 780 KeV. Can slow (non-relativistic) electrons climb the barrier by borrowing just enough potential magnetic (but no kinetic) energy - leaving ULMNs? As shown in [1], in nanowires. almost no conduction electron energy is kinetic. Almost all is likely stored in virtual exchange photons. On metal hydride nano-particle surfaces, plasma electrons and protons can oscillate in parallel and opposite directions . -- When velocity = 0, coulomb force brings some e-p pairs together -- as velocity increases, magnetic ampere force pinches e-p pairs closer Semiclassically, this increasing ampere force is equivalent to a rising linear potential in a time-varying Schroedinger equation - Graphically: --- PLASMONIC OScILLATION: TRANSFERING 'MAGNETIC ENERGY' MIN PLASMON AMPLITUDE AMPLITUDE INCREASES MIN AMPERE FORCE AMPERE FORCE RISES MIN LINEAR POTENTIAL LINEAR POTENTIAL RISES ^ ^^ ^ . .. . \ . \ .\ .\. \ .\. \ . \ e \
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Terry sez: Here's Wikipedia's entry on the spheres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_sphere OOPAs! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact from Oompa Loompa! Oompartifacts ... or perhaps Loompartifacts. Actually, the latter sounds like the name of an Italian restaurant I use to go to. Great kitchen cacciatore. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) That's what I said in my book, chapter 14. I discussed this with a lot of power company and EPRI people. Abandoning the distribution network will save a tremendous amount of money over the long term. Of course it will take a long time. Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war . . . I hope that war will not be an issue in the future. A few days after 9/11, Bush flew to N.Y.C. He looked out of the window of the airplane and said, this is the first war of the 21st century. When I read that I thought, I was hoping there wouldn't be any more damned wars in this century, or any any century to come. People may feel that is a unrealistic hope but I do not see why. At least in the First World we have eliminated slavery, child labor, filthy drinking water and many other social evils that used to kill a lot more people than war did. I don't see why we can't eliminate war. It is no more ingrained in human nature than these other evils we eliminated. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system, then DGT may be the product for you. But in a high density urban environment, few will be able to fit their stuff into their apartment or their condo let alone afford their own electric utility package. The ideal of self-sufficiency will not prevail against the reality of crowded urban living. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc. Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated. On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote: ** I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these types of generating facilities for the best economy. The risk is that govs will intervene with tax credits and regulations to influence how and where energy is produced - this invariably leads to distortions and inefficiencies. Tax credits and deductions for solar panels and electric cars being notable examples. - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor We are talking the cost effective generation of electricity here. Let us draw proper lessens from recent history and current reality. If the production of electric power was more cost efficient in the individual home, then natural gas turbines would be now found in everyone’s basement; but there are no home centric gas/electric home generation products on the market. The big centralized natural gas turbines operated by large electric utilities are now and will always be the low cost provider. The idea that the independence of the individual is critical in the upcoming peak energy apocalypse according to the green renewable power doctrinaire is false. So it is extremely important that this groundless green concept must not be transferred to LENR electric power production. NiH power production is a highly concentrated nuclear based form of power production. In the same way as fission power, high COP and huge economies of scale can be translated into ultra-low cost centralized electric power production by statewide or even regional electric utilities. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: good design, but I think it is not adapted to the need. your design save energy, but at the cost of investment. the structure of LENR is that it is investment that cost, not fuel. so my vision is that classic water, moderate temperature, will will, because it will ensure the least total cost LENR is really a violent paradigm change in energy management. we were preparing for starvation, and it is bonanza. . . . Yup. Well said. see the nuclear reactors, working at low temperature for incresed safety and simplicity... LENR is even less expensive about consumption. I agree. I was going to make these points. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the people who repair the wires after storms and so on. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system . . . You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your supercritical turbine cannot do all that. I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U. But it is not worth the trouble. Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have individual ones because it is so convenient. It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home (one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency. Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer. Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
I believe that it was Jed that first made the comparison: In the past ice (simple, frozen H2O) was delivered to businesses and homes. Centralized production, then distribution made sense due to the technological limitations of the time. Now that nearly every home in the developed world has its own freezer, these distribution channels are pared down to gas-station and supermarket deliveries, for barbecue and picnic support. If Ni-H becomes sufficiently compact and reliable, we would simply replace a furnace or air conditioner with an all-in-one Combined Heat and Power device. This won't occur overnight, but seems to be a logical result of power system evolution. Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system, then DGT may be the product for you. But in a high density urban environment, few will be able to fit their stuff into their apartment or their condo let alone afford their own electric utility package. The ideal of self-sufficiency will not prevail against the reality of crowded urban living. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc. Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated. On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote: I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these types of generating facilities for the best economy. The risk is that govs will intervene with tax credits and regulations to influence how and where energy is produced - this invariably leads to distortions and inefficiencies. Tax credits and deductions for solar panels and electric cars being notable examples. - Original Message - From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor We are talking the cost effective generation of electricity here. Let us draw proper lessens from recent history and current reality. If the production of electric power was more cost efficient in the individual home, then natural gas turbines would be now found in everyone’s basement; but there are no home centric gas/electric home generation products on the market. The big centralized natural gas turbines operated by large electric utilities are now and will always be the low cost provider. The idea that the independence of the individual is critical in the upcoming peak energy apocalypse according to the green renewable power doctrinaire is false. So it is extremely important that this groundless green concept must not be transferred to LENR electric power production. NiH power production is a highly concentrated nuclear based form of power production. In the same way as fission power, high COP and huge economies of scale can be translated into ultra-low cost centralized electric power production by statewide or even regional electric utilities. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: good design, but I think it is not adapted to the need. your design save energy, but at the cost of investment. the structure of LENR is that it is investment that cost, not fuel. so my vision is that classic water, moderate temperature, will will, because it will ensure the least total cost LENR is really a violent paradigm change in energy management. we were preparing for starvation, and it is bonanza. . . . Yup. Well said. see the nuclear reactors, working at low temperature for incresed safety and simplicity... LENR is even less expensive about consumption. I agree. I was going to make these points. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/supercritical-carbon-dioxide-brayton.html Take a look at the size comparison of CO2 unit verses steam. The steam turbine is a quarter page and the CO2 turbine is the size of an exclamation point at twice the capacity. First the wires are all paid for and they all are in use. The key to LENR success is to capture as much of the existing electric infrastructure as possible. Most people in the US cannot now afford to buy housing. Landlords will opt for pay as you go rent/utility payments. The upfront cost of a new DGT power system is not cost effective for the landlord. So like green power, DGT power will not be successful. Don’t drink the Green power cool aid. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe that it was Jed that first made the comparison: In the past ice (simple, frozen H2O) was delivered to businesses and homes. Centralized production, then distribution made sense due to the technological limitations of the time. Now that nearly every home in the developed world has its own freezer, these distribution channels are pared down to gas-station and supermarket deliveries, for barbecue and picnic support. *If Ni-H becomes sufficiently compact and reliable*, we would simply replace a furnace or air conditioner with an all-in-one Combined Heat and Power device. This won't occur overnight, but seems to be a logical result of power system evolution. -- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system, then DGT may be the product for you. But in a high density urban environment, few will be able to fit their stuff into their apartment or their condo let alone afford their own electric utility package. The ideal of self-sufficiency will not prevail against the reality of crowded urban living. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc. Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated. On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote: ** I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these types of generating facilities for the best economy. The risk is that govs will intervene with tax credits and regulations to influence how and where energy is produced - this invariably leads to distortions and inefficiencies. Tax credits and deductions for solar panels and electric cars being notable examples. - Original Message - *From:* Axil Axil *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor We are talking the cost effective generation of electricity here. Let us draw proper lessens from recent history and current reality. If the production of electric power was more cost efficient in the individual home, then natural gas turbines would be now found in everyone’s basement; but there are no home centric gas/electric home generation products on the market. The big centralized natural gas turbines operated by large electric utilities are now and will always be the low cost provider. The idea that the independence of the individual is critical in the upcoming peak energy apocalypse according to the green renewable power doctrinaire is false. So it is extremely important that this groundless green concept must not be transferred to LENR electric power production. NiH power production is a highly concentrated nuclear based form of power production. In the same way as fission power, high COP and huge economies of scale can be translated into ultra-low cost centralized electric power production by statewide or even regional electric utilities. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: good design, but I think it is not adapted to the need. your design save energy, but at the cost of investment. the structure of LENR is that it is investment that cost, not fuel. so my vision is that classic water, moderate temperature, will will, because it will ensure the least total cost LENR is really a violent paradigm change in energy management. we were preparing for
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent power
producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for local
communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I hope
LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs, expand and
boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets it first...)
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'janap...@gmail.com'); wrote:
The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric
turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power
generators.
I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the
people who repair the wires after storms and so on.
If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square
footage to install your own power system . . .
You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating
and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and
replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your
supercritical turbine cannot do all that.
I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and
refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump
steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U.
But it is not worth the trouble.
Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has his
own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis make
much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In
cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have
individual ones because it is so convenient.
It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home
(one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it
will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency.
Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything.
Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be
self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer.
Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity.
- Jed
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR index project -- a darn shame this does not work
Jed, That software reminds me of Dr. Seuss. I know some new tricks, Said the Cat in the Hat. A lot of good tricks. I will show them to you... look at me, look at me now! . Great start, but the continuation is not so smooth! mic
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
The US industrial sector is outsourcing absolutely everything they possibly can, including entire industrial plants and oil refineries. Electric utility companies might be obsolete in the UK because they are outsourcing their electric power from French nuclear. Germany will do the same when their coal runs out. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs, expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets it first...) On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the people who repair the wires after storms and so on. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system . . . You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your supercritical turbine cannot do all that. I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U. But it is not worth the trouble. Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have individual ones because it is so convenient. It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home (one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency. Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer. Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
A landlord/commercial building owner will be able to lease a new LENR system for less monthly cost than he is currently paying for heating fuel and electric. No brainer. On Monday, February 20, 2012, Axil Axil wrote: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/supercritical-carbon-dioxide-brayton.html Take a look at the size comparison of CO2 unit verses steam. The steam turbine is a quarter page and the CO2 turbine is the size of an exclamation point at twice the capacity. First the wires are all paid for and they all are in use. The key to LENR success is to capture as much of the existing electric infrastructure as possible. Most people in the US cannot now afford to buy housing. Landlords will opt for pay as you go rent/utility payments. The upfront cost of a new DGT power system is not cost effective for the landlord. So like green power, DGT power will not be successful. Don’t drink the Green power cool aid. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe that it was Jed that first made the comparison: In the past ice (simple, frozen H2O) was delivered to businesses and homes. Centralized production, then distribution made sense due to the technological limitations of the time. Now that nearly every home in the developed world has its own freezer, these distribution channels are pared down to gas-station and supermarket deliveries, for barbecue and picnic support. *If Ni-H becomes sufficiently compact and reliable*, we would simply replace a furnace or air conditioner with an all-in-one Combined Heat and Power device. This won't occur overnight, but seems to be a logical result of power system evolution. -- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system, then DGT may be the product for you. But in a high density urban environment, few will be able to fit their stuff into their apartment or their condo let alone afford their own electric utility package. The ideal of self-sufficiency will not prevail against the reality of crowded urban living. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc. Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated. On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote: ** I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these types of generating facilities for the best economy.
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
Progress, I have moved you off the kilowatt sized unit to the megawatt sized unit. But with LENR, power will be so cheap; most people will buy a 1500 watt electric heater at the local hardware store for $30 plug it into the wall socket and skip the headache of being the own utility provider. No brainer On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: A landlord/commercial building owner will be able to lease a new LENR system for less monthly cost than he is currently paying for heating fuel and electric. No brainer. On Monday, February 20, 2012, Axil Axil wrote: http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/supercritical-carbon-dioxide-brayton.html Take a look at the size comparison of CO2 unit verses steam. The steam turbine is a quarter page and the CO2 turbine is the size of an exclamation point at twice the capacity. First the wires are all paid for and they all are in use. The key to LENR success is to capture as much of the existing electric infrastructure as possible. Most people in the US cannot now afford to buy housing. Landlords will opt for pay as you go rent/utility payments. The upfront cost of a new DGT power system is not cost effective for the landlord. So like green power, DGT power will not be successful. Don’t drink the Green power cool aid. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe that it was Jed that first made the comparison: In the past ice (simple, frozen H2O) was delivered to businesses and homes. Centralized production, then distribution made sense due to the technological limitations of the time. Now that nearly every home in the developed world has its own freezer, these distribution channels are pared down to gas-station and supermarket deliveries, for barbecue and picnic support. *If Ni-H becomes sufficiently compact and reliable*, we would simply replace a furnace or air conditioner with an all-in-one Combined Heat and Power device. This won't occur overnight, but seems to be a logical result of power system evolution. -- Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor From: janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system, then DGT may be the product for you. But in a high density urban environment, few will be able to fit their stuff into their apartment or their condo let alone afford their own electric utility package. The ideal of self-sufficiency will not prevail against the reality of crowded urban living. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.comwrote: The grid of the future is no grid (existing grid will transistion to a hot backup for some time) Distributed power systems will prevail long term since fuel and electrical distribution/transmission costs upkeep go towards zero $ and a distributed system is much safer during war , solar flares, etc. Distributed LENR systems will provide local CHP which is a big plus.Equipment will be taxed, capitalized depriciated. On Sunday, February 19, 2012, Jay Caplan wrote: ** I agree, the market will decide the optimum scale and location for these types of generating facilities for the best economy.
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR index project -- a darn shame this does not work
Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: That software reminds me of Dr. Seuss. I know some new tricks, Said the Cat in the Hat. A lot of good tricks. I will show them to you... look at me, look at me now! . Great start, but the continuation is not so smooth! Exactly. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
The key issue is that household electricity demand averages about 0.3-1.5kW, but can spike up to 10kW with aircon, ovens, hairdryers, clothes dryers, toasters, kettles, lawnmowers, powertools etc. It is very hard to make a system that can cover such a range efficiently or cheaply. Currently even the best batteries are very expensive ($0.03/kWh), but grid supplies are typically $0.07-0.01/kWh (on top of the cost of electricity at a large powerplant). A neighbourhood micro-grid is a good compromise - it evens out the loads and can handle the spikes in demand from individual houses with no trouble so you don't need to have a home generator capable of high peak power, or any energy storage, but you don't have to pay for the maintenance of large transformers, substations and transmission lines. And if your generator needs maintenance you will still have power. A neighbourhood microgrid will be low voltage, transformerless and will probably add $0.02/kWh to the cost of electricity. It might involve small generators in each house (heat and power) with electricity shared between all houses to cover power spikes, or it might be a centralized generator of 50-1000kW. That said all sizes of generators will be used from 100's of MW for industrial uses to 10's of kW for factories to 1-5kW with energy storage for stand alone and rural and 100's of W for communication towers or lighting. On 20 February 2012 22:13, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs, expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets it first...) On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the people who repair the wires after storms and so on. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system . . . You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your supercritical turbine cannot do all that. I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U. But it is not worth the trouble. Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have individual ones because it is so convenient. It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home (one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency. Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer. Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Here is the story of the first modulated radio signals 100 years ago. http://marconigraph.com/titanic/wireless/mgy_wireless.html Before that the emission spectrum of the spark transmitter what that of lightning and was dwarfed at interstellar distances by natural sources. After the introduction of the rotating wheel with to interrupt the spark there was a unnatural beep beep beep that was different. Twenty years later these things put out a megawatt. If there wave ever to be a man made ball of lighting it should have came out of one of these fiery pin wheels. Speaking of the time my neighbor gave me a set of encyclopedias when I was in the 5th grade from 1912. It had a picture representing New York sky harbor by 1950. There were wooden sailing ships held up by balloons and a restaurant held up by balloons saying Eat at Joe's. I believe I saw this picture again in Infinite Energy. It had a warfare of the future picture. Men carrying rifles were held up by flapping wing packs. There was a sphere held up by a balloon with a cannon. It had a story about the zeppelin stating that I could carry heavy guns and knock out any heaver that air craft before it came into the range of its small guns. And of course there was the steam locomotive going a a mile a minute. Who could believe that? There were safety stories about the automatic application of the breaks with a trip bar tied to the block system,,what a marvel...no more wrecks..maybe not!! The Titanic and the Olympic were in dry dock as the pride of the British empire. The Titanic sunk after publication 100 years ago this April. So did a third of the series the Britannic. It had stores of the wondrous wireless. These stories were shrouded in the mystery keep by the Marconi company. Sort of like Rossi today. My mother through out the books when I was in school in the 8th grade. I have never been able to find another copy. As I read of Jed and his predictions I wonder will his be bettor or worse. They had the right idea in 1912 but the wrong implementation. No one had a clue of the coming internet until it happened. Some see only tragedy. I see anti-gravity and cold fusion. Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:[JONP] About Leonardo Corp. property + end of partnership with NI
If you were Rossi and were 1000% convinced that it's all good to go, and you only needed another 12-18 months to start shipping, wouldn't you try to keep everything under wraps and obfuscate where possible? There's nothing to gain, and IP to lose, by giving even the slightest thing away. That's Rossi's most convincing argument, that he is very secretive and obfuscating. The rest of us, we can only wait or ignore. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Earning a place for your business on an approved vendor list can be your ticket to winning more government-contract work. Nearly all prime contractors maintain lists of preferred vendors and subcontractors based on the quality and timeliness of their work and other attributes. Many businesses work diligently to get on these lists because they put these businesses one step closer to participating in a government procurement. If secrecy is involved, the approved vendor has been cleared to do secret work with employees that have been vetted to the appropriate security level. The vender also assigns a security officer that maintains a confidential file system in a secured location within the vender’s facility and handles and maintains the security clearances of the employees. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 7:42 AM, Wolf Fischer wolffisc...@gmx.de wrote: Some weeks ago, Rossi said that NI, he and the customer were working together on the 1MW plant. And now the customer wants something different? Why change a running system (if it ever was running)? And why is it important to the customer, which company supplies the controlling mechanism for a heating plant? Wolf From Rossi: Also our Customer has chosen other suppliers for the first generation of the domestic E-Cats and of the 1 MW plants. It is possible that a simple PLC/PAC could have been chosen. I don't think stabilization would be that big a challenge. All Rossi needed was some feedback. T -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
After LENR, eLectricity, now virtually free will be exchanged like college
kids share torrents, afterall they are just electrons.
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Robert Lynn wrote:
The key issue is that household electricity demand averages about
0.3-1.5kW, but can spike up to 10kW with aircon, ovens, hairdryers, clothes
dryers, toasters, kettles, lawnmowers, powertools etc. It is very hard to
make a system that can cover such a range efficiently or cheaply.
Currently even the best batteries are very expensive ($0.03/kWh), but grid
supplies are typically $0.07-0.01/kWh (on top of the cost of electricity at
a large powerplant).
A neighbourhood micro-grid is a good compromise - it evens out the loads
and can handle the spikes in demand from individual houses with no trouble
so you don't need to have a home generator capable of high peak power, or
any energy storage, but you don't have to pay for the maintenance of large
transformers, substations and transmission lines. And if your generator
needs maintenance you will still have power. A neighbourhood microgrid
will be low voltage, transformerless and will probably add $0.02/kWh to
the cost of electricity. It might involve small generators in each house
(heat and power) with electricity shared between all houses to cover power
spikes, or it might be a centralized generator of 50-1000kW.
That said all sizes of generators will be used from 100's of MW for
industrial uses to 10's of kW for factories to 1-5kW with energy storage
for stand alone and rural and 100's of W for communication towers or
lighting.
On 20 February 2012 22:13, Chemical Engineer
cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');
wrote:
In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent
power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for
local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I
hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs,
expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets
it first...)
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric
turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power
generators.
I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the
people who repair the wires after storms and so on.
If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square
footage to install your own power system . . .
You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating
and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and
replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your
supercritical turbine cannot do all that.
I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and
refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump
steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U.
But it is not worth the trouble.
Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has
his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis
make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In
cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have
individual ones because it is so convenient.
It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home
(one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it
will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency.
Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything.
Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be
self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer.
Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity.
- Jed
RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
Not sure where you are going with this - but the simple explanation of all is it cannot happen, due to conservation of spin. Two half-spin fermions cannot fuse to form a half-spin neutron. Otherwise hydrogen would be unstable and spontaneously form neutrons. From: David Roberson I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now and maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e to become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? Oh sure - if you have a relativistic beam line with which to arbitrarily convert energy into mass of any variety, such as creating a neutrino to carry away the extra spin - then you can do it; but the energy balance is so lop-sided that it is irrelevant for practical purposes. Once again, Widom Larsen theory is brain dead from start to finish. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
RE: [Vo]:Time Crystals
This paper also supports my posit that catalytic action is based on changes in Casimir force where equivalent acceleration felt by gas particles changes with background geometry - like a bank of cylindrical capacitors On a shaker table this momentum changing effect shears the leads off between the capacitors and they roll out of the bank minus their legs. I think catalytic action is based on this analogue of momentum changing which can discount the amount of energy required to disassociate atomic bonds. Fran [snip] particles in the presence of a time crystal background will be subject to energy-changing processes, analogous to momentum-changing.[/snip]
Re: [Vo]:The Keel, Nickel power, and Sunspots
On 02/12/2012 10:33 PM, Mauro Lacy wrote: I'll perform a power spectral density analysis of sunspot number/solar activity data. If there's a 5.52 year cycle in solar activity, it'll show up, along with the main 11 year cycle. I don't think something that big can be easily overlooked, but nevertheless... it bodes well with my modest attempts at statistical signal processing :-) More about this later, probably. Well, here are the graphs: http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle The data was obtained from http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/greenwch. I used the daily sunspot area as an indicator of solar activity. The method used is an estimate of power spectral density by the Welch (1967) periodogram/FFT method, which is readily available, by example in octave or Matlab. I had to do some manual preprocessing of the data, and after fiddling for a relatively long time with the scales, I finally began to obtain some meaningful values. As can be seen in http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle/daily_area-PSD3.png, there are two peaks near Eta Carinae's period (5.539 years) of dimming X-ray activity , at 5.51 and 5.3 years. They are both much less significant than the main period of the solar cycle (which by the way, seems to be actually near 10.6 years, not 11.04 years as usually stated), and there's is not a period of exactly 5.539 years, but they are close nevertheless. That is, there are (secondary) periods of the solar system not in, but closer, to 5.539. I obtained 5.539 years from the literature. This site in particular was very helpful: http://etacar.umn.edu/ Regarding these results, I suppose you take it or leave it. I mean, they really aren't *that* significant. But if you take it, there are some interesting things to try: 1) smooth/consolidate the periodograms, to try to obtain less noise, and higher peaks. 2) look for north hemisphere vs. south hemisphere cycles. As Eta Car is south, maybe the periods in the south hemisphere are closer to Eta Car's period. I'll do this next. 3) look for phase, not only frequency, correlations. I have yet to learn how to do statistical phase analysis. I hope you enjoy the pictures! If there are some people interested, I can publish the scripts and techniques I used to obtain the graphs. It really wasn't that difficult. Best regards, Mauro
Re: [Vo]:In vitro meat production
I can trust technology to manage the constraints according to local criteria. in the 70s-80s i've seen the evolution of industrial food in france. it get really nice today (whatever the local taliban says), and allow people to focus on other subject (women work, kids, leisure)... if a culture don't care on tast, you can expect no improvement in taste. otherwise, technology adapt. also imagine that much surface of planet today is not used, or not used efficiently. to feed africa you only need to multiply by 3 their farming efficiently (source french SciAm Pour La Science), from awful, to simply low. no need of modern products, just french revolution style farming... with european technology, they could raise cattle and focus on industry, school and leisure like every body. just have not to be too fast to avoid unemployment... as usual the only problem is human and politic. 2012/2/20 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com I hope that the scientists can achieve the look and taste of normal meats. It would be difficult to eat fabricated meat products unless they closely resemble the real thing. I suppose that people can learn to accept whatever is placed before them as food, but thus far there is little interest in eating insect protein that is available in great quantities. Unfortunately, some of us that have been around a while have become accustomed to eating specific items and have high expectations. Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 1:03 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:In vitro meat production Meat production already takes up more than half of the world's estimated agricultural capacity, in one way or another. U.N. figures show that animal farming takes up 30 percent of the planet's exposed land mass. And over the next 40 years, the demand for meat products is expected to double. If the researchers' assumptions are correct, growing meat in the lab could reduce the energy expenditure by about 40 percent, Post said. Lab-grown meat has also won the endorsement of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETAhttp://www.peta.org/features/In-Vitro-Meat-Contest.aspx, because the stem cells could be extracted without killing animals. For more see: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/19/10449704-lab-grown-hamburger-due-to-be-served-up-this-year-for-33 On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The efficiency of food production can be increased many fold by the elimination of most non-essential animal parts and systems. The elimination of unproductive body parts such as skin, bones, fat, nerves, head, hoofs, beaks, claws, hair, feathers, intestines, reproductive parts, and the others sundries that have evolved over time to keep an animal viable as an independent biological machine can be eliminated with a concomitant gain in power and cost efficiency. Not having to walk, keep warm, think, excrete, and the other essentials of everyday life greatly reduces the food processing waste products and real-estate requirements involved with animal based food production. Not having to meet the nutritional interfaces of standalone and independent biological systems is a real plus. A pound of hamburger or frankfurter protein can be produced with great efficiency from a soylent green type slim based cultured biological emulsions in million barrel vats compared to current animal husbandry technology by at least an order of magnitude in productivity in terms of power consumed per pound of product. On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: In a thread infected with the recursive Vo error, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Growing plants for food may be energy inefficient, but eating animals strikes me as indulgent and unethical if we could chemical synethsize all our food needs. I do not think it will be possible to synthesize food in the near future. Perhaps it will hundreds of years from now. For the next few hundred years I expect conventional biological methods will be used. For plants, this means production in food factories, probably with hydroponics. For meat, I predict it will mean in vitro production. See: http://www.new-harvest.org/default.php I believe rapid progress is being made in this field. I hope it succeeds, soon. I agree that it is cruel and unethical to eat animals if we have a humane alternative such as in vitro production. I expect the product of in vitro production will be healthier for the humans who eat it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
I agree. the grid will not die, but will change from a delivery grid to an exchange grid. for me it is like internet. internet did nt kill the mainframe, but replaced it by servers that behave like big or small mainframes, providing different services, organized according to the needs, but also to the orgianization of the producer of content... of course ther is still home production, but less than at the begining, and alos there is an organized exchange platform, like CHP can be. mainframe are no more the only allowed technology, but big internet servers exists 2012/2/20 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com The key issue is that household electricity demand averages about 0.3-1.5kW, but can spike up to 10kW with aircon, ovens, hairdryers, clothes dryers, toasters, kettles, lawnmowers, powertools etc. It is very hard to make a system that can cover such a range efficiently or cheaply. Currently even the best batteries are very expensive ($0.03/kWh), but grid supplies are typically $0.07-0.01/kWh (on top of the cost of electricity at a large powerplant). A neighbourhood micro-grid is a good compromise - it evens out the loads and can handle the spikes in demand from individual houses with no trouble so you don't need to have a home generator capable of high peak power, or any energy storage, but you don't have to pay for the maintenance of large transformers, substations and transmission lines. And if your generator needs maintenance you will still have power. A neighbourhood microgrid will be low voltage, transformerless and will probably add $0.02/kWh to the cost of electricity. It might involve small generators in each house (heat and power) with electricity shared between all houses to cover power spikes, or it might be a centralized generator of 50-1000kW. That said all sizes of generators will be used from 100's of MW for industrial uses to 10's of kW for factories to 1-5kW with energy storage for stand alone and rural and 100's of W for communication towers or lighting. On 20 February 2012 22:13, Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com wrote: In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs, expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets it first...) On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric power generators. I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations, the people who repair the wires after storms and so on. If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square footage to install your own power system . . . You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your supercritical turbine cannot do all that. I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U. But it is not worth the trouble. Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have individual ones because it is so convenient. It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home (one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency. Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer. Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
The travesty of the existing grid is that only 25-45% of the fossil energy
produced in heat and elec. at the utility company ever makes it to the end
user. The rest goes out the stack/cooling tower/river or ocean water as
Polution to the environment
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:
I agree.
the grid will not die, but will change from a delivery grid to an exchange
grid.
for me it is like internet.
internet did nt kill the mainframe, but replaced it by servers that behave
like
big or small mainframes, providing different services, organized according
to the needs, but
also to the orgianization of the producer of content...
of course ther is still home production, but less than at the begining,
and alos there is an organized exchange platform, like CHP can be.
mainframe are no more the only allowed technology, but big internet
servers exists
2012/2/20 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com');
The key issue is that household electricity demand averages about
0.3-1.5kW, but can spike up to 10kW with aircon, ovens, hairdryers, clothes
dryers, toasters, kettles, lawnmowers, powertools etc. It is very hard to
make a system that can cover such a range efficiently or cheaply.
Currently even the best batteries are very expensive ($0.03/kWh), but
grid supplies are typically $0.07-0.01/kWh (on top of the cost of
electricity at a large powerplant).
A neighbourhood micro-grid is a good compromise - it evens out the loads
and can handle the spikes in demand from individual houses with no trouble
so you don't need to have a home generator capable of high peak power, or
any energy storage, but you don't have to pay for the maintenance of large
transformers, substations and transmission lines. And if your generator
needs maintenance you will still have power. A neighbourhood microgrid
will be low voltage, transformerless and will probably add $0.02/kWh to
the cost of electricity. It might involve small generators in each house
(heat and power) with electricity shared between all houses to cover power
spikes, or it might be a centralized generator of 50-1000kW.
That said all sizes of generators will be used from 100's of MW for
industrial uses to 10's of kW for factories to 1-5kW with energy storage
for stand alone and rural and 100's of W for communication towers or
lighting.
On 20 February 2012 22:13, Chemical Engineer
cheme...@gmail.comjavascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');
wrote:
In the future, I think the industrial sector will become independent
power producers supplying all of their own needs and act as a backup for
local communities. Utility companies will become obsolete long term. I
hope LENR will be the boost that US manufacturing needs to cut costs,
expand and boost production and get jobs back in the US (unless China gets
it first...)
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The economy of scale says that one room sized CO2 supercritical
electric turbine is far more economical then 10 million sterling electric
power generators.
I doubt it. Not when you include the cost of the wires, substations,
the people who repair the wires after storms and so on.
If you are a standalone survivalist, have the capital and the square
footage to install your own power system . . .
You are forgetting that a standalone system also functions as a heating
and thermal airconditioning system. It eliminate electricity and gas and
replaces the furnace, the airconditioner and the water heater. Your
supercritical turbine cannot do all that.
I have my open HVAC system at my house, and my own washer, dried and
refrigerator. It might be more efficient to use district heating and pump
steam through pipes for heat, the way they do at the campus at Cornell U.
But it is not worth the trouble.
Look at it this way. Automobiles are very inefficient. Everyone has
his own, and they sit in the parking lot all day. Trains, buses or taxis
make much better use of equipment, take up less space and cost far less. In
cities such as Paris, the cars are crammed together. But we like to have
individual ones because it is so convenient.
It will not be more convenient to have one or two generators at home
(one for backup) because no one cares where electricity comes from, but it
will be cheaper and simpler in the long run, and that trumps efficiency.
Eventually, thermoelectric power supplies will be built into
everything. Everything from watches to refrigerators the automobiles will
be self-powered. There will be no electric wires. It will be a lot safer.
Note that refrigerators will use mainly heat, rather than electricity.
- Jed
RE: [Vo]:The Keel, Nickel power, and Sunspots
Impressive! You take this quite seriously Mauro. This is actually a lot more complicated than it seems at first glance. Probably because the 11 year cycle is not really exact, but the statistical arguments are hard for me to follow. You have to wonder how accurate older data is as well. Is this your hobby only? As I recall, your profession (like so many who turn up on vortex for some reason) is software development, no? From: Mauro Lacy I'll perform a power spectral density analysis of sunspot number/solar activity data. If there's a 5.52 year cycle in solar activity, it'll show up, along with the main 11 year cycle. I don't think something that big can be easily overlooked, but nevertheless... it bodes well with my modest attempts at statistical signal processing :-) More about this later, probably. Well, here are the graphs: http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle The data was obtained from http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/greenwch. I used the daily sunspot area as an indicator of solar activity. The method used is an estimate of power spectral density by the Welch (1967) periodogram/FFT method, which is readily available, by example in octave or Matlab. I had to do some manual preprocessing of the data, and after fiddling for a relatively long time with the scales, I finally began to obtain some meaningful values. As can be seen in http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle/daily_area-PSD3.png, there are two peaks near Eta Carinae's period (5.539 years) of dimming X-ray activity , at 5.51 and 5.3 years. They are both much less significant than the main period of the solar cycle (which by the way, seems to be actually near 10.6 years, not 11.04 years as usually stated), and there's is not a period of exactly 5.539 years, but they are close nevertheless. That is, there are (secondary) periods of the solar system not in, but closer, to 5.539. I obtained 5.539 years from the literature. This site in particular was very helpful: http://etacar.umn.edu/ Regarding these results, I suppose you take it or leave it. I mean, they really aren't that significant. But if you take it, there are some interesting things to try: 1) smooth/consolidate the periodograms, to try to obtain less noise, and higher peaks. 2) look for north hemisphere vs. south hemisphere cycles. As Eta Car is south, maybe the periods in the south hemisphere are closer to Eta Car's period. I'll do this next. 3) look for phase, not only frequency, correlations. I have yet to learn how to do statistical phase analysis. I hope you enjoy the pictures! If there are some people interested, I can publish the scripts and techniques I used to obtain the graphs. It really wasn't that difficult. Best regards, Mauro
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Well if they use some kind of quantum entanglement transmission, how could we eavesdrop on them ? So far our RF cone extends 100 light years behind us ( 0 Quite a catch for a random alien in our galaxy to be at the receiving end, anyway if by chance some random alien picked up our signal which would only last as long as he stays inside the cone, then he has to compute where to reply, he probably would send something like, Sorry we're busy right now, please call back later. So besides SETI attempts, what would be our best chance to detect ET life? At least, i think they should emit low amounts of infrared (You've got to stay warm in winter, right), some kind of heat signature, but to see something you must be inside their cone, what do you think ?
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
don't forget the neutrino, that take away the half spin and the leptonic number. this reaction happens in some condition. people interested in WL should read ALL their papers and slides, because many critics here and on nextbigfuture are addressed. the slides refers to many recognized resulst showing that proposed SPP, proton entanglement, betadelayed alpha,... about why LENR should not apear in many materials, it seems their arguments is that it need coherents protons that you can only find at the surface of hydrides, and linked to graphene... place where they present LENR proofs. also in NBF they argumet against proposed transmutation, but they seems not to have read the larsen slides, and mills experiments. the 5 peak mass spectroscopy is an argument for neutrons absorption, and not fusion. the experiments where LENR are triggered by IR laser talk for surface, quantum and SPP origine about neutrons ability to be absorbed, it is because those neutrons have a wide wave function covering many nucleus, since they are entangled population of neutrons created from entangled protons and electrons... of course it is not evident, might be wrong, but once you FP effects, and also suppressed results from previous experiments since 19th century (xray tube with H2 transmutation, oil arcing, coke factory N isotopic anomaly) , it became one of the possible theory, no less credible than other... about semiclassic approximation, be carefull because it can kill the key element behind the phenomemon, which is surely based on : - surface - local electromagnetic effects - quantum entanglement - no classic fusion for me the only other candidate agains WL are similar theory based on protons directly or indirectly merging with nucleus around. the miracle of nogamma is also a big problem, because the wide spectrum of condition for LENR (different metal, gaz, graphene, ), where no dangerous gamma is produced, call for a generic mechanisme, not to a lucky branching ratio... WL propose one with gamma screening, maybe there is another similar ... but there is such a mechanism. the WL transparents are really a must to read, because it gives constraints to what can be the solutions. maybe WL is wrong, but the solution is constraint to be similar, according to experimental results. 2012/2/21 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net Not sure where you are going with this - but the simple explanation of all is it cannot happen, due to conservation of spin. Two half-spin fermions cannot fuse to form a half-spin neutron. Otherwise hydrogen would be unstable and spontaneously form neutrons. From: David Roberson I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now and maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e to become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? Oh sure - if you have a relativistic beam line with which to arbitrarily convert energy into mass of any variety, such as creating a neutrino to carry away the extra spin - then you can do it; but the energy balance is so lop-sided that it is irrelevant for practical purposes. Once again, Widom Larsen theory is brain dead from start to finish. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
you mix two lossed. the thermodynamic cycles are the same for LENR, even worse for small units, and lower temperature of reactors. this is why bigger units might be more efficent that smaller. the other lossed are transport losses. but don't forget that in LENR the biggest cost is not fuel but investment. investing in a generator 5 times bigger than your average consumtion, just to be off the grid is not efficient. also if the grid became a peer to peer network, and no more a donwnload network, the transport losses will be strong ly reduced. the good point is that grid could be more easily managed because more naturally balanced. anyway ther could be some regional/temporal disbalance where the big powerlines will be usefull to avoid building big huge powerplants... once again we have changed paradigm, investment and maintenance is the cost, this means maximum power. no more the energy itself. 2012/2/21 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com The travesty of the existing grid is that only 25-45% of the fossil energy produced in heat and elec. at the utility company ever makes it to the end user. The rest goes out the stack/cooling tower/river or ocean water as Polution to the environment
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
I am beginning to get the impression that you are not a fan of the Widom Larsen theory. That is not a difficulty as far as I can determine since my question is mainly an attempt to approach the problem from another point of view. It seems that we are spending a lot of effort trying to figure out where the net activation energy arises when I think it is a good idea to look for that energy from within the reaction products. There is more than enough energy released by the LENR effect than required to initialize it. Does it not seem logical to search for the missing energy in a location which has excess energy? The correct LENR theory may already exist in some form, but I have not detected anything resembling a consensus thus far. What experiments can be conducted to weed out the concepts that are not correct? Are there any ideal tests that would prove a particular theory beyond reasonable doubt? Please understand that I am attempting to think outside of the normal box. Sometimes an alternate approach to problems ignites a fuse. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 6:49 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory Not sure where you are going with this - but the simple explanation of all s it cannot happen, due to conservation of spin. Two half-spin fermions cannot fuse to form a half-spin neutron. Otherwise ydrogen would be unstable and spontaneously form neutrons. From: David Roberson I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now nd maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e o become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? Oh sure - if you have a relativistic beam line with which to arbitrarily onvert energy into mass of any variety, such as creating a neutrino to arry away the extra spin - then you can do it; but the energy balance is so op-sided that it is irrelevant for practical purposes. Once again, Widom Larsen theory is brain dead from start to finish. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The Keel, Nickel power, and Sunspots
On 02/20/2012 10:29 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Impressive! You take this quite seriously Mauro. Not so seriously, really. I took it as an opportunity to learn new things. And your hypothesis looked both interesting and appropriate. This is actually a lot more complicated than it seems at first glance. Probably because the 11 year cycle is not really exact, but the statistical arguments are hard for me to follow. Basically, there are mathematical methods to obtain the foundational frequencies for a given signal. Any given signal can be decomposed in a sum of components in frequency. That's called the spectrum of the signal. You can Google Fourier transform, and Spectrum analysis, if you like, as a good start. I don't know much about the extensive and venerable mathematical treatment, but the pragmatic and intuitive approach is immediate: obtain the components in frequency of a given signal, no matter how complex, and sort them according to relevance, that is, according to how well defined and strong they appear in the original signal. Another interesting thing is that you can later use those components to reconstruct the signal, and that can be (and is) used as a compression method. But that's another story, related to digital audio and video, and to their ubiquity on the internet. You have to wonder how accurate older data is as well. Yes. Systematic data for the solar cycle starts in 1874, which is good. Systematic data for Eta Carinae and Eta Carinae's cycle is only from around 1948. I'm assuming Eta Carinae's cycle spans all the way to 1874 with the same frequency, which is a strong assumption. But if Eta Carinaea is part of a binary system, as presumed, it's also a good one. An interesting thing to try, by the way, is to perform spectral analysis of the solar cycle, but only with data after 1948. Is this your hobby only? It's probably related to my work, but in unexpected ways. Basically, the more you know, the better. That applies to all fields of life, by the way. And I always wanted to learn to perform spectrum analysis. I think that to be able to look for cycles and correlations is something very useful, and that its use is in its infancy, at least in the Astrophysical sciences. As I recall, your profession (like so many who turn up on vortex for some reason) is software development, no? Yes. Software development is an area where it's good to be constantly learning, because the field is relatively recent, and is also developing very fast. Things change, usually for the better, all the time, and it's valuable and rewarding to be informed and know about new methods, new languages, techniques, etc. That can be one of the reason many software developers are lurking around here; always trying to learn new aspects about things :-) It's also a field where there are a lot of free and very powerful tools. All that makes for a very good, and fruitful, combination. Best regards. Thanks for the opportunity to chitchat a little bit, Mauro *From:* Mauro Lacy I'll perform a power spectral density analysis of sunspot number/solar activity data. If there's a 5.52 year cycle in solar activity, it'll show up, along with the main 11 year cycle. I don't think something that big can be easily overlooked, but nevertheless... it bodes well with my modest attempts at statistical signal processing :-) More about this later, probably. Well, here are the graphs: http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle The data was obtained from http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/greenwch. I used the daily sunspot area as an indicator of solar activity. The method used is an estimate of power spectral density by the Welch (1967) periodogram/FFT method, which is readily available, by example in octave or Matlab. I had to do some manual preprocessing of the data, and after fiddling for a relatively long time with the scales, I finally began to obtain some meaningful values. As can be seen in http://maurol.com.ar/solar_cycle/daily_area-PSD3.png, there are two peaks near Eta Carinae's period (5.539 years) of dimming X-ray activity , at 5.51 and 5.3 years. They are both much less significant than the main period of the solar cycle (which by the way, seems to be actually near 10.6 years, not 11.04 years as usually stated), and there's is not a period of exactly 5.539 years, but they are close nevertheless. That is, there are (secondary) periods of the solar system not in, but closer, to 5.539. I obtained 5.539 years from the literature. This site in particular was very helpful: http://etacar.umn.edu/ Regarding these results, I suppose you take it or leave it. I mean, they really aren't *that* significant. But if you take it, there are some interesting things to try: 1) smooth/consolidate the periodograms, to try to obtain less noise, and higher peaks. 2) look for north hemisphere vs. south hemisphere cycles. As Eta Car is south, maybe the periods in the south
[Vo]:LENR-CANR MySQL screens fixed -- please send suggestions
Problem fixed! I had to write-enable a folder. You would think the documentation would say this. I should enable them all but I do not think there is a way to do this through the cPanel. A shout-out to Miroslaw Wydra for assistance with this. I think I will add a few features such as Search Publications and make this the main library screen. I can keep the other legacy version around too. If anyone wants to see some other search or sort method please let me know. MySQL is a piece of cake. Actually, Quick Search in the Detail tab does just about everything you need. I find this more handy than a Google search. Fewer false positives. (There is one other bug I know about but cannot fix: the Abstract is not set for HTML. It goes off the screen to right if you set that attribute. I need to add a bunch of br codes to the string, to manually limit line length.) - Jed
RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
From: David Roberson I am beginning to get the impression that you are not a fan of the Widom Larsen theory. Well - all of us on vortex would love to be able to focus on a consistent theory that works. W-L theory seems to be a continuing waste of our time for understanding Ni-H - for many major reasons (I have combined Ed Storms' objections with my own here): 1) No neutron activation seen - neutron activation could not be avoided if the theory was valid. 2) The technology and literature on ultra low temperature neutrons is well known and bears no resemblance to the Larsen invented species: ultra low momentum neutrons. How could the two be different? 3) Energy cannot spontaneously concentrate on an electron to levels of in excess of 760,000 eV to provide a minimal basis for a neutron. (Second Law) 4) Electrons at moderate temperatures cannot store energy beyond the energy levels available in a chemical systems, far below 0.76 MeV. 5). Energetic electrons at less than relativistic energies do not react with protons to make neutrons. (Conflict with observation and violation of conservation of spin) 6). Neutron addition to nickel produces well-known nuclear products that are not observed. (Conflict with copious observation) 7). Neutron addition requires emission of gammas of known energy, which is not observed. (Conflict with experience and theory) 8). Radioactive transmutation products should be present and are not seen. These are all major objections, and there are dozens more minor objections. Any one of these will invalidate W-L. It seems that we are spending a lot of effort trying to figure out where the net activation energy arises when I think it is a good idea to look for that energy from within the reaction products. There is more than enough energy released by the LENR effect than required to initialize it. Does it not seem logical to search for the missing energy in a location which has excess energy? No problem there. This is QM - and energy can be borrowed in advance of being repaid, as they say. But there are no neutrons. That much is completely clear. What experiments can be conducted to weed out the concepts that are not correct? First - we need to know for sure if there are absolutely zero gammas during operation or not. Bianchini says zero from the best available testing. Rossi says some, but offers no data; and DGT says some, but offers no data. If we knew the spectrum, and the net energy of gammas relative to the thermal output - there is little doubt that a workable theory could be framed. But it will not include anything from W-L - unless neutron activation is documented. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
the thermodynamic cycles are the same for LENR
Yes they are the same Rankine cycle but the 65% excess heat energy
generated locally with LENR can be used to heat water, homes and factories
and in the summer maybe to run absorption chillers for extra cooling.
Also, DGT's reactor can cycle up 5 kW thermal increments by closing a 24 V
contact and energizing one more core much like 12 cyclinder IC engines can
go from 6-8-10-12 cylinders and only generate the power when needed. It
will be no contest, utililities are toast.
Also, 30% of the fossil fuel energy today is used to drill, mine and
transport the fossil fuels themselves!
On Monday, February 20, 2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:
you mix two lossed.
the thermodynamic cycles are the same for LENR, even worse for small
units, and lower temperature of reactors.
this is why bigger units might be more efficent that smaller.
the other lossed are transport losses.
but don't forget that in LENR the biggest cost is not fuel but investment.
investing in a generator 5 times bigger than your average consumtion, just
to be off the grid is not efficient.
also if the grid became a peer to peer network, and no more a donwnload
network, the transport losses will be strong ly reduced.
the good point is that grid could be more easily managed because more
naturally balanced.
anyway ther could be some regional/temporal disbalance where the big
powerlines will be usefull to avoid building big huge powerplants...
once again we have changed paradigm, investment and maintenance is the
cost, this means maximum power. no more the energy itself.
2012/2/21 Chemical Engineer cheme...@gmail.com javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'cheme...@gmail.com');
The travesty of the existing grid is that only 25-45% of the fossil
energy produced in heat and elec. at the utility company ever makes it to
the end user. The rest goes out the stack/cooling tower/river or ocean
water as Polution to the environment
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR MySQL screens fixed -- please send suggestions
To reiterate, the screens are here: http://lenr-canr.org/index/tabs/tabs.php Suggestions welcome. I could add any number of features but I will resist the temptation. Keep it simple. I plan to modernize the rest of the screens. That is easy compared to finding software to do this. Software that actually works, that is. To change the rest of the screens I can use the Namo Web editor I have. I guess I will put the menus on top in the tab format that everyone uses these days. I may resort to Wordpress. I did learn how to use it along the way to doing this. It is easy. But ugly! There is probably a database handler built into Wordpress somewhere, or as a Plugin, but I'll be darned if I can find it. They have a million add-on Plugins, written by god-knows-who, without adequate documentation: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/ I notice the top listed Plugin WP Supercache converts Wordpress code from dynamically generated to static HTML, to make it go faster. Gee. I have been writing static HTML for like, 20 years . . . (I know, I get it . . .) I do not think much of crowd-sourced software but even the White House uses Wordpress. You will be assimilated. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
I believe that W=L theory proposes that LENR is initiated by strong focusing of E-M fields on metal hydride surfaces. I may be misunderstanding, but wouldn't activation energy loss be too small to detect in the energy released? I don't understand Jones Beenes' point. If correct - how do neutrons decay into e-, p+ and neutrino? David Roberson wrote on Mon, 20 Feb 2012: I am beginning to get the impression that you are not a fan of the Widom Larsen theory. That is not a difficulty as far as I can determine since my question is mainly an attempt to approach the problem from another point of view. It seems that we are spending a lot of effort trying to figure out where the net activation energy arises when I think it is a good idea to look for that energy from within the reaction products. There is more than enough energy released by the LENR effect than required to initialize it. Does it not seem logical to search for the missing energy in a location which has excess energy? The correct LENR theory may already exist in some form, but I have not detected anything resembling a consensus thus far. What experiments can be conducted to weed out the concepts that are not correct? Are there any ideal tests that would prove a particular theory beyond reasonable doubt? Please understand that I am attempting to think outside of the normal box. Sometimes an alternate approach to problems ignites a fuse. Dave -Original Message- From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 6:49 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory Not sure where you are going with this - but the simple explanation of all s it cannot happen, due to conservation of spin. Two half-spin fermions cannot fuse to form a half-spin neutron. Otherwise ydrogen would be unstable and spontaneously form neutrons. From: David Roberson I have a question that has bugged me for quite some time now nd maybe one of you would humor me with a simple explanation. Do we have to consider the total energy required for a P + e o become a N to have to arise out of a non active material? Oh sure - if you have a relativistic beam line with which to arbitrarily onvert energy into mass of any variety, such as creating a neutrino to arry away the extra spin - then you can do it; but the energy balance is so op-sided that it is irrelevant for practical purposes. Once again, Widom Larsen theory is brain dead from start to finish. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor
Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: I believe that it was Jed that first made the comparison: In the past ice (simple, frozen H2O) was delivered to businesses and homes. Centralized production, then distribution made sense due to the technological limitations of the time. The limitation was they used ammonia refrigerant, which was toxic. Before that they cut ice from ponds in winter. People stored that on farms, in ice houses, covered in sawdust. They would sell ice to people in town, and send it by ship to Florida. Technology often goes in circles, from centralized systems, to decentralized, back to centralized systems. A vivid modern example: isolated mainframe computer = timeshare (shared) = isolated mini-computers = isolated PCs = LAN-PCs = Internet = cloud computing (more shared than any previous model) The distinction is somewhat artificial. People think of automobiles as decentralized but look at fuel delivery, road building and traffic control it seems almost as centralized as a railroad. In some ways. No doubt many competing cold fusion systems will be developed. The market will decide. It may be that centralized systems work bbest for large cities with high population density, but in suburbs and rural areas, decentralized systems will prevail. The market distribution may fall in about the same areas as central sewer systems versus septic tanks. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
Too many points to address. Perhaps, the Celani-Srivastava presentation at the March 22 CERN LENR Colloquium will discuss them, since Srivastava is a proponent. Jones Beene wrote: Well - all of us on vortex would love to be able to focus on a consistent theory that works. W-L theory seems to be a continuing waste of our time for understanding Ni-H - for many major reasons (I have combined Ed Storms' objections with my own here): 1) No neutron activation seen - neutron activation could not be avoided if the theory was valid. 2) The technology and literature on ultra low temperature neutrons is well known and bears no resemblance to the Larsen invented species: ultra low momentum neutrons. How could the two be different? 3) Energy cannot spontaneously concentrate on an electron to levels of in excess of 760,000 eV to provide a minimal basis for a neutron. (Second Law) 4) Electrons at moderate temperatures cannot store energy beyond the energy levels available in a chemical systems, far below 0.76 MeV. 5). Energetic electrons at less than relativistic energies do not react with protons to make neutrons. (Conflict with observation and violation of conservation of spin) 6). Neutron addition to nickel produces well-known nuclear products that are not observed. (Conflict with copious observation) 7). Neutron addition requires emission of gammas of known energy, which is not observed. (Conflict with experience and theory) 8). Radioactive transmutation products should be present and are not seen. These are all major objections, and there are dozens more minor objections. Any one of these will invalidate W-L. It seems that we are spending a lot of effort trying to figure out where the net activation energy arises when I think it is a good idea to look for that energy from within the reaction products. There is more than enough energy released by the LENR effect than required to initialize it. Does it not seem logical to search for the missing energy in a location which has excess energy? No problem there. This is QM - and energy can be borrowed in advance of being repaid, as they say. But there are no neutrons. That much is completely clear. What experiments can be conducted to weed out the concepts that are not correct? First - we need to know for sure if there are absolutely zero gammas during operation or not. Bianchini says zero from the best available testing. Rossi says some, but offers no data; and DGT says some, but offers no data. If we knew the spectrum, and the net energy of gammas relative to the thermal output - there is little doubt that a workable theory could be framed. But it will not include anything from W-L - unless neutron activation is documented. Jones
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR index project -- a darn shame this does not work
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:44:59 -0500: Hi Jed, [snip] Perhaps the grid lines are the same colour as the background? Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: That software reminds me of Dr. Seuss. I know some new tricks, Said the Cat in the Hat. A lot of good tricks. I will show them to you... look at me, look at me now! . Great start, but the continuation is not so smooth! Exactly. - Jed Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
[Vo]:NanoSpire Inc.
NanoSpire, Inc. Successfully Harnesses Cavitation Zero Point Energy to Produce Dramatic Levels of Fusion Transmutation In Water press release: http://www.1888pressrelease.com/nanospire-inc-successfully-harnesses-cavitation-zero-point-pr-372884.html company website: http://www.nanospireinc.com/ Harry
RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
-Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com I don't understand Jones Beene's point. If correct - how do neutrons decay into e-, p+ and neutrino? Yes, that is correct - and spin is conserved on neutron decay. Since you are going from a more massive neutron to a less massive proton, the energy released is also conserved. BUT - there is a basic asymmetry here in that in addition to the large mass deficit, when you try to go the other way (P + e), there is NO neutrino with which to conserve spin, so it cannot happen in that direction - get it? Neutrinos are ubiquitous but cannot be captured to retain symmetry. Plus - even if spin were not an issue, you cannot go from low mass to higher mass without adding LOTS of energy from somewhere. Speed of light squared cannot be easily bypassed to suddenly create the deficit mass - as W-L apparently wish to do. As David mentioned, in QM - the deficit could potentially be borrowed in advance, but only IF it could be repaid immediately (sub-pico-sec). However, there is too much time delay for that since the neutron is not immediately absorbed following formation.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Vertical farming in Linköping, Sweden
2012/2/19 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com: When you say the human population pressure would be reduced, what do you mean? Do you mean there would be fewer hungry people? Yes, and if we could make animal food through chemical processing from CO2 and H2O then we wouldn't require as much land for agriculture and so we could have more forests and parks. Growing plants for food may be energy inefficient, but eating animals strikes me as indulgent and unethical if we could chemical synethsize all our food needs. Harry Is it excessively indulgent to go on holiday? Or own an car? Or own a carnivorous pet like a dog or cat? Have 2.1 children? Or any of a thousand other energy or resource hungry hobbies? You could survive in an unheated single room shack, with no electricity by eating a calorifically restricted diet (known to increase lifespan) while never doing anything that would use more than the bare minimum of energy or resources, because by the same excessive use of resources consumed argument anything more than that would also be unethical. Perhaps even your existence and the cost it imposes on resources is unethical? Yes, so why oppose the growing of plant of food on the grounds that it is energy intensive? So it really depends on what your article of faith is regarding the utility of human existence. Some examples include; adhering to a set of religious beliefs, perpetuating the human race, maximising your personal enjoyment, improving the average human condition. These various articles of faith are all personal judgements based on what makes different people happy, but none of them can be justified on any rational basis. Personally I am mostly about the last three, and my ethics are grounded in wanting to have a nice friendly society that I enjoy living in. But I would prefer a million cute little puppies or kittens died excruciating deaths than 1 person because I don't see that animals have any intrinsic worth other than their utility to us. For me animal utility includes their contribution to allowing us to survive but also the pleasure they give us by their existence and in some cases how tasty they are. Yes, I suppose we should let the puppies die in a fire if it means saving one person. Traditionally, we also think it is ethical to let men die, if the women and children can be saved. Hard choices have to be made in an emergency situation, but most of the time life is not an emergency. I eat meat, so I am hypocrite when I say this, but I think only hunted animals may be eaten. Breeding animals for consumption is gross. The universe is not a friendly place, animals eat each other with no care for their victims suffering etc, or driving others species to extinction, just as some bacterium or virus is likely to have a good try at wiping humans out in the next few hundred years and all life on earth is likely to be extinct in a billion years without intelligent intervention. All Life is a waste of energy. Suicide is the most efficient choice. (sarcasm) Harry
RE: [Vo]:A brief, semi-classical take on Widom-Larsen theory
Jones, On your first point - Electron Capture events [energy+p+e -- n+v] occur in the nucleus and respect conservation laws. Are we sure they cannot also occur in extremely energetic complex plasmons? On your second point - Energy must come from somewhere. The formulas in the two papers I referenced show that conduction electrons in nano-circuits can acquire far more momentum, inertial mass and potential magnetic energy than in macro-circuits. This is why I suggested that the electroweak barrier might be surmounted by direct conversion of magnetic potential energy by an ampere pinching together of an e-p pair - bypassing conversion of magnetic-to-kinetic energy. After all, exchanging electrostatic potential energy with gravitional potential energy at slow speeds is easy. The ampere force on an e-p plasmon pair is exerted by magnetic coupling to millions of electrons. Maybe an good analogy would be an arrow. Only the tip's electrostatic coupling to the rest of the arrow gives it piercing power. BTW, I am not sure of any of the above. Just speculating. I welcome corrections. Thanks for the reply, Lou Pagnucco Jones Beene wrote on Mon, 20 Feb 2012: -Original Message- From: pagnu...@htdconnect.com I don't understand Jones Beene's point. If correct - how do neutrons decay into e-, p+ and neutrino? Yes, that is correct - and spin is conserved on neutron decay. Since you are going from a more massive neutron to a less massive proton, the energy released is also conserved. BUT - there is a basic asymmetry here in that in addition to the large mass deficit, when you try to go the other way (P + e), there is NO neutrino with which to conserve spin, so it cannot happen in that direction - get it? Neutrinos are ubiquitous but cannot be captured to retain symmetry. Plus - even if spin were not an issue, you cannot go from low mass to higher mass without adding LOTS of energy from somewhere. Speed of light squared cannot be easily bypassed to suddenly create the deficit mass - as W-L apparently wish to do. As David mentioned, in QM - the deficit could potentially be borrowed in advance, but only IF it could be repaid immediately (sub-pico-sec). However, there is too much time delay for that since the neutron is not immediately absorbed following formation.
Re: [Vo]:NanoSpire Inc.
In February, 2004 Mark L. LeClair, CEO Founder of NanoSpire, Inc., discovered a crystalline form of water… Produced by the enormous pressure of cavitation bubble collapse, *many of the jets were seen to have facets* *and to possess tremendous electrostatic charge.* The crystal has an equilateral triangular cylinder subunit that most commonly forms jet hexagon cross-sections. The crystal is a series of repeating O-H bonds along its axis and is bound by hydrogen bonds in the cross-sectional plane, a type of hybrid bonded crystal known as a van der Waals crystal. The flexibility of the hydrogen bonds allowed the crystal to assume a rich variety of shapes, most commonly resembling a bacteriophage, with a large hexagonal faceted head and narrow whip tail. The crystal tail can split into a fractal fan on impact. The leading face closest to the bow shock and the sides of the crystal are positively charged and the tail is negative, allowing the crystal to form observed closed loops. The positive charge of the leading face and sides was revealed by impacting the crystal into litmus paper. This created bright red hexagonal impacts in green litmus paper, and purple hexagons in orange litmus paper, both indicators of zero pH and large positive charge concentration on the crystal. The MTI grant research showed that the crystallized jets would often carve long trenches in materials guided by their electrostatic charge and removed far more material than could be accounted. The crystal, moving at supersonic and greater speeds, is surrounding by a bow shock like a fighter plane. The positively charged crystal is attracted to its own negatively charged bow shock by the Casmir Force and coherently extracts zero point energy on a large scale. The crystal then accelerates to what appears to be relativistic speeds in very short distances. This is implied by the heavy element transmutation observed bull-dozed in front of the bow shock, the only way these heavy elements are known to form in nature is either from stellar core collapse or supernova explosions, both occurring at relativistic speeds. The transmutation process observed in all the experiments closely matched the behaviour of stellar fusion nucleosynthesis and both type I II supernova shock nucleosynthesis. This discovery will have a major effect on stellar evolution astronomy, allowing stellar nucleosynthesis, stellar core collapse nucleosynthesis and supernova nucleosynthesis to all be studied on a desktop, with varying compositions. The phenomenon of the water crystal propelled by the attraction to its bow shock has been named the LeClair Effect. Based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal, the LeClair Effect theory and the profound discoveries based on it pose a serious quantum theory challenge to the classical understanding of Newton's Laws of Motion and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. So sorry please excuse me... I know I sound like a one trick pony, but these crystals sound like a variation of Rydberg matter formed in water to me. *“many of the jets were seen to have facets and to possess tremendous electrostatic charge.” * This is the strong coherent dipole charge produced by coherent electron motion at high Rydberg orbital numbers. Transmutation is caused by coherent quantum mechanical fusion processes involving a condensate of coherent protons pairs produced by Rydberg matter and an associated Efimov Effect. *“large hexagonal faceted head and narrow whip tail.”* This sounds like two dimensional Rydberg crystals to me. The crystals seem to be long lived indicating a high excitation level of high hydrogen S band orbitals. Filter these crystals out of the water after they are created by cavitation and they will produce fusion in your Rossi reactor without the secret sauce. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: NanoSpire, Inc. Successfully Harnesses Cavitation Zero Point Energy to Produce Dramatic Levels of Fusion Transmutation In Water press release: http://www.1888pressrelease.com/nanospire-inc-successfully-harnesses-cavitation-zero-point-pr-372884.html company website: http://www.nanospireinc.com/ Harry
Re: [Vo]:NanoSpire Inc.
One more point... Remember, in Single Bubble Sonoluminescence cavitation systems, I have asserted here on vortex that the deep ultraviolet EMF that is produced is caused by Rydberg atoms formed at or near the point of bubble collapse. NanoSpire, Inc. has taken Rydberg material generation one step further and has produced Rydberg matter. On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 2:24 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: In February, 2004 Mark L. LeClair, CEO Founder of NanoSpire, Inc., discovered a crystalline form of water… Produced by the enormous pressure of cavitation bubble collapse, *many of the jets were seen to have facets* *and to possess tremendous electrostatic charge.* The crystal has an equilateral triangular cylinder subunit that most commonly forms jet hexagon cross-sections. The crystal is a series of repeating O-H bonds along its axis and is bound by hydrogen bonds in the cross-sectional plane, a type of hybrid bonded crystal known as a van der Waals crystal. The flexibility of the hydrogen bonds allowed the crystal to assume a rich variety of shapes, most commonly resembling a bacteriophage, with a large hexagonal faceted head and narrow whip tail. The crystal tail can split into a fractal fan on impact. The leading face closest to the bow shock and the sides of the crystal are positively charged and the tail is negative, allowing the crystal to form observed closed loops. The positive charge of the leading face and sides was revealed by impacting the crystal into litmus paper. This created bright red hexagonal impacts in green litmus paper, and purple hexagons in orange litmus paper, both indicators of zero pH and large positive charge concentration on the crystal. The MTI grant research showed that the crystallized jets would often carve long trenches in materials guided by their electrostatic charge and removed far more material than could be accounted. The crystal, moving at supersonic and greater speeds, is surrounding by a bow shock like a fighter plane. The positively charged crystal is attracted to its own negatively charged bow shock by the Casmir Force and coherently extracts zero point energy on a large scale. The crystal then accelerates to what appears to be relativistic speeds in very short distances. This is implied by the heavy element transmutation observed bull-dozed in front of the bow shock, the only way these heavy elements are known to form in nature is either from stellar core collapse or supernova explosions, both occurring at relativistic speeds. The transmutation process observed in all the experiments closely matched the behaviour of stellar fusion nucleosynthesis and both type I II supernova shock nucleosynthesis. This discovery will have a major effect on stellar evolution astronomy, allowing stellar nucleosynthesis, stellar core collapse nucleosynthesis and supernova nucleosynthesis to all be studied on a desktop, with varying compositions. The phenomenon of the water crystal propelled by the attraction to its bow shock has been named the LeClair Effect. Based on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal, the LeClair Effect theory and the profound discoveries based on it pose a serious quantum theory challenge to the classical understanding of Newton's Laws of Motion and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. So sorry please excuse me... I know I sound like a one trick pony, but these crystals sound like a variation of Rydberg matter formed in water to me. *“many of the jets were seen to have facets and to possess tremendous electrostatic charge.” * This is the strong coherent dipole charge produced by coherent electron motion at high Rydberg orbital numbers. Transmutation is caused by coherent quantum mechanical fusion processes involving a condensate of coherent protons pairs produced by Rydberg matter and an associated Efimov Effect. *“large hexagonal faceted head and narrow whip tail.”* This sounds like two dimensional Rydberg crystals to me. The crystals seem to be long lived indicating a high excitation level of high hydrogen S band orbitals. Filter these crystals out of the water after they are created by cavitation and they will produce fusion in your Rossi reactor without the secret sauce. On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.comwrote: NanoSpire, Inc. Successfully Harnesses Cavitation Zero Point Energy to Produce Dramatic Levels of Fusion Transmutation In Water press release: http://www.1888pressrelease.com/nanospire-inc-successfully-harnesses-cavitation-zero-point-pr-372884.html company website: http://www.nanospireinc.com/ Harry
