In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 26 Mar 2013 07:42:37 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
When proof seems to be relatively easy to come by, but is nevertheless
absent does that not raise red flags even at NASA ?
When you only have one straw, you tend to hold on tightly. ;)
Regards,
Robin van
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Fri, 29 Mar 2013 17:38:47 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Sorry Harry, I don't think so. In fact probably the reverse. The h_bar
arises
because that's the angular momentum of a photon. Natural constant.
Consequence
of the makeup of the fabric of space-time (IMO).
Any
In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:39:50 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
Eric,
I was thinking that the neutrons would move relatively freely through matter
since they lack a charge to interact and the physical sizes of the nuclei as
well as the neutron are so small compared
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:34:08 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
...however, that having been said, the path that the bouncing neutrons
follow
would be longer because of a random-walk. Since the path is longer, their
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:31:22 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
However, might the hbar arise because you overlooked the motion of the
proton in conserving angular momentum? The electron is not orbiting a
fixed point.
[snip]
Sorry Harry, I don't think so. In fact probably the
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 4:13 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:31:22 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
However, might the hbar arise because you overlooked the motion of the
proton in conserving angular momentum? The electron is not orbiting a
fixed
size (wave) beyond a point
location.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 12:05 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 2:20
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 26, 2013 1:23 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
Dave,
a continous charge distribution presents another problem. Why doesn't
this _electric
:34 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
...however, that having been said, the path that the bouncing neutrons follow
would be longer because of a random-walk. Since the path
, 2013 1:23 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
Dave,
a continous charge distribution presents another problem. Why doesn't
this _electric form_ spontaneously distintergrate from internal
repulsion? I can think of two solutions
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 11:39 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I was thinking that the neutrons would move relatively freely through
matter since they lack a charge to interact and the physical sizes of the
nuclei as well as the neutron are so small compared to the electron
From: Eric Walker
...however, that having been said, the path that the
bouncing neutrons follow
would be longer because of a random-walk. Since the path
is longer, their
chances of being captured increases...but maybe this is
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 2:20 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Harry,
I have not given much thought about free electrons. The example that we
were discussing was of an electron trapped in orbit around a nucleus which
then would have the positive charge of the nucleus to keep it
slit type
experiments. This type of behavior implies size (wave) beyond a point location.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 12:05 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should
, Mar 25, 2013 12:07 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
Dave,
I did not know that. So, for example, a uniformly charged circular
ring spinning like a wheel will not radiate?
Will it radiate if it is rotating about its diameter?
Harry
On Sun, Mar
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:47 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:13:10 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Classical EM theory says a charge undergoing acceleration should radiate
energy.
A charge with angular momentum is experiencing an acceleration (in the
]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:26:56 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
For the above reasons there would be no energy loss as a result of the current
flow if it consisted of a continuous charge distribution
In reply to David Roberson's message of Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:40:39 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
That should be true if the electron acts as a point charge since we know the
atom is stable. Have you looked into relativity effects to see if they
influence the electron radiation cancellation at ground
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:33:23 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:47 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:13:10 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Classical EM theory says a charge undergoing acceleration should
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 3:45 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:33:23 -0400:
This abstract seems to support your theory as long as the electron's
displacement is small relative to its size.
@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Mar 25, 2013 12:07 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
Dave,
I did not know that. So, for example, a uniformly charged circular
ring spinning like a wheel will not radiate?
Will it radiate if it is rotating about its
On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 10:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
...however, that having been said, the path that the bouncing neutrons
follow
would be longer because of a random-walk. Since the path is longer, their
chances of being captured increases...but maybe this is already included
in the
Well, Robin - this appears to be neither actual neutrino pair production (as
opposed to cosmological theory), nor relevant to LENR, since it is
hypothetical pair production in collapsing stars... therefore, IMHO -
nothing has changed and it still requires a major miracle to suggest that
that
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:56 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:59:19 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
The standard model, I assume, is predicated on the conviction that QM
is correct and also necessary.
It is felt necessary because it explains the
Eric,
Great work. Thanks.
I was not aware that official data was imprecise. Nice to know that.
If the thermal neutron generation is actually occurring, it seems there
should be a small amount of radioactive ash (maybe short-lived) after the
reaction is stopped. I believe some of the
Lou,
I wish it was great work. Unfortunately, there was an important flaw once
again. From Robin's Web site I obtained the total cross sections, and from
your Web site I obtained the neutron capture cross sections. It is the
total cross section, only one component of which is the neutron
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Harry,
An electron would not spiral into the nucleus if it is a continuous charge
instead of a point source. Think of it as a steady DC current which
generates a magnetic field that does not radiate energy like an
charge following the same path.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:00 PM, David
. That is not true for a point charge following the same path.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sat, Mar
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 7:35 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 06:52:31 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
According to Robin reduced-mass neutrons can form spontaneously, but
rarely, when an electron is captured
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 10:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Harry
10:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Harry,
An electron would not spiral into the nucleus if it is a continuous charge
instead of a point source. Think
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:56:51 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Actually, my intention was to explain how free neutrons could be
created, but I guess
this is not necessary. I will just focus on my argument that a proton
and electron can collide instead
forming a stable atom. The
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:26:56 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
For the above reasons there would be no energy loss as a result of the current
flow if it consisted of a continuous charge distribution orbiting a nucleus.
That is not true for a point charge following
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:39:44 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
Lou,
I wish it was great work. Unfortunately, there was an important flaw once
again. From Robin's Web site I obtained the total cross sections, and from
your Web site I obtained the neutron capture cross
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:13:10 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
Classical EM theory says a charge undergoing acceleration should radiate
energy.
A charge with angular momentum is experiencing an acceleration (in the
classical mechanical sense
of angular menumtum) so it should
This is provides a summary of eight distinct failed models of the
hydrogen atom which the preceded the Bohr model.
http://skullsinthestars.com/2008/05/27/the-gallery-of-failed-atomic-models-1903-1913/
As I have argued recently, I think the key to explaining cold fusion
phenomena depends on a
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/WLTheory.shtml
Harry - let's count the number of miracles required for this to happen:
quote
Allan Widom and Lewis Larsen propose that,
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
According to Robin reduced-mass neutrons can form spontaneously, but
rarely, when an electron is captured by a nucleus. Would it be possible to
exchange the seven miracles for one miracle of a reduced-mass neutron from a
free electron and free
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
According to Robin reduced-mass neutrons can form spontaneously, but
rarely, when an electron is captured by a nucleus. Would it be possible to
exchange the seven miracles
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:34:47 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
Lou,
If LENR neutrons are indeed generated as proposed by W-L, almost all will
be in the thermal range - quite a low momentum by fusion standards.
They speak about ultra low momentum neutrons, which I think is
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Fri, 22 Mar 2013 01:34:47 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
I assume that is a lot, and
that that would set off a GM counter.
BTW note that GM counters are not really designed to detect slow neutrons. They
will only do so via secondary effects, i.e. absorption of the neutron
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 06:52:31 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
According to Robin reduced-mass neutrons can form spontaneously, but
rarely, when an electron is captured by a nucleus. Would it be possible to
exchange the seven
Thank you, Robin.
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:49 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
So I
think you would take the weighted average of these to get an upper bound
on
the absorption cross section of a block of normal nickel; e.g., 100 * .68
+
50 * .26 = 81 barns.
My earlier calculation was flawed.
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
The Ni doesn't need to undergo electron capture. The point was that a
proton and an electron could be absorbed concurrently by the Ni, combining
to form a new neutron in the Ni.
Hi Robin,
And where does the energy come from for the neutrino
In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:59:19 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
The standard model, I assume, is predicated on the conviction that QM
is correct and also necessary.
It is felt necessary because it explains the apparent stability of
matter which CM could not do.
CM explains the
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:50:39 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
The Ni doesn't need to undergo electron capture. The point was that a
proton and an electron could be absorbed concurrently by the Ni, combining
to form a new
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:47:17 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
Thank you, Robin.
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 3:49 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
So I
think you would take the weighted average of these to get an upper bound
on
the absorption cross section of a block of normal
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
What makes you think it would require several MeV? Last I saw, they were
having trouble proving that the neutrino had any mass at all, let alone
several MeV.
What you must be referring to is rest mass; but like a photon, neutrinos
always
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:29:00 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
What makes you think it would require several MeV? Last I saw, they were
having trouble proving that the neutrino had any mass at all, let alone
several MeV.
what you are discussing.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Mar 23, 2013 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Jones Beene
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
represent the upper limit of mass-energy of the electron anti-neutrino. It
is reasonable to assume if pair production is involved it would be require
over 1.5 MeV.
It is not at all reasonable...
OK - then let's ask the obvious question -
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
That would be
yet another miracle, it would seem.
Faith seems to have become an important part of LENR. I never had a
religion before now. :-)
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton
That would be
yet another miracle, it would seem.
Faith seems to have become an important part of LENR. I never had a
religion before now. :-)
I thought you wuz a Southern Babuddhist Gnostic ...
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:20 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton
That would be
yet another miracle, it would seem.
Faith seems to have become an important part of LENR. I never had a
religion before now. :-)
I thought you wuz a
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:40:30 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
represent the upper limit of mass-energy of the electron anti-neutrino. It
is reasonable to assume if pair production is involved it would be require
over 1.5
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
Then you should be able to follow the same procedure, but include all the
natural isotopes, no?
I've gone back and corrected the calculation to take into account the
missing isotopes. This time I obtained upper and lower bounds for
Lou,
If LENR neutrons are indeed generated as proposed by W-L, almost all will
be in the thermal range - quite a low momentum by fusion standards.
They speak about ultra low momentum neutrons, which I think is
significantly lower than thermal energies. These would then collide with
nickel
: only a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
Lou,
If LENR neutrons are indeed generated as proposed by W-L, almost all will
be in the thermal range - quite a low momentum by fusion standards.
They speak about ultra low momentum neutrons, which I think is
significantly lower
Eric,
If the W-L theory is correct, I cannot see how neutrons would form in a
thermal bath and would be cooler than their environment. What would be
the cooling mechanism? Moreover, given the high absorbing cross sections
over a very wide range of thermal energies, I think you are
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote:
Eric,
Says that slow neutron is produced and absorbed by atoms in a LENR device.
In the order of 6.24E11 neutron captures per second for 1W, as you said,
some atoms which have received an absorbed neutron will
The polariton exists in a state of Quantum Mechanical superposition with
the other members of its ensemble in a Nano-cavity. This is critical for
the thermalization of fusion energy because the polariton will share its
energy between all its entangled ensemble members when the fusion event
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/WL/WLTheory.shtml
Harry - let's count the number of miracles required for this to happen:
quote
Allan Widom and Lewis Larsen propose that, in condensed matter,
local breakdown of the Born-Oppenheimer approximation
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 9:42 AM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:
I am perplexed, though, that some, whose own beliefs are derided by main
stream science, are so eager to persecute. Maybe they are smarter than
the rest. Maybe not.
Agreed. I don't think Widom and Larsen or their theory should
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Most chemists have no training in nuclear physics and most physicists have
no training in chemistry.
That is an exaggeration. They have *some* training.
Unfortunately, many physicists believe they understand all aspects of
Nature.
That they
I wrote:
A 10 mW heat source may well be commercial in 20 years. It would be
enough to drive a cell phone.
Oops. No, it would take more like 12 W, I think. 3 W is the most a cell
phone is allowed to produce, for health safety reasons. I suppose you could
trickle charge the thing with a
a perfect LENR theory should attack other
theories
I wrote:
A 10 mW heat source may well be commercial in 20 years. It would be enough
to drive a cell phone.
Oops. No, it would take more like 12 W, I think. 3 W is the most a cell
phone is allowed to produce, for health safety reasons. I
The key mechanism of the WL theory is defined in a way to make it very
hard or impossible to verify.
The specification of the ultra-low energy neutron was engineered to make it
virtually undetectable because it doesn’t move far from the nucleus before
its immense nuclear absorption cross section
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The specification of the ultra-low energy neutron was engineered to make it
virtually undetectable because it doesn’t move far from the nucleus before
its immense nuclear absorption cross section results in its almost
Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote:
At the beginning of a call, the mobile is emitting at full power. Then the
power is decreased over time if reception conditions are good at base
station.
. . .
For GSM 2G 900Mhz Band, the maximum power is 2W (33 dBm)
For GSM 2G 1800Mhz Band,
pockets. Fire hazards due
to high temperature are here a main issue. This is against a mobile without
battery.
_
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: jeudi 21 mars 2013 23:00
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: CMNS: only a perfect LENR theory should attack
As you note, ultracold neutrons are an old and respected niche of physics -
and these known cold neutrons are easily detectable and bear not the
slightest resemblance to the W-L concoction – which IMHO is almost in the
category of brain-dead.
How can low energy be anything other than ultra-cold?
Arnaud Kodeck arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be wrote:
In current available mobiles, it is not possible to have continuous call
at 2W for a long period of time before batteries get empty.
So, in a dire emergency, present-day cell phones soon run out of power? I
mean an emergency when cell phone tower
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
As you note, ultracold neutrons are an old and respected niche of physics
- and these known cold neutrons are easily detectable and bear not
the slightest resemblance to the W-L concoction – which IMHO is almost in
the category of brain-dead.
I think
On Mar 21, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
As you note, ultracold neutrons are an old and respected niche of
physics - and these known cold neutrons are easily detectable and
bear not the slightest resemblance to the W-L concoction – which
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The key mechanism of the WL theory is defined in a way to make it very
hard or impossible to verify.
As I said, I cannot judge the situation, but if that is the case, it is not
falsifiable and therefore not a valid theory. It also sounds like what I
call a
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The key mechanism of the WL theory is defined in a way to make it very
hard or impossible to verify.
As I said, I cannot judge the situation, but if that is the case, it is not
Eric,
The website you cite has data for ultracold neutrons (energy ~300 neV.)
Could any LENR experiment ever produce such cold neutrons?
Even at just room temp, thermal neutrons possess energy of ~30 meV.
Wouldn't ultracold neutrons be a tiny part of the Boltzman distribution?
The thermal
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 9:27 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:
W-L electron capture may, or may not, occur, but AFAIK no one proposed
that neutrons would be generated ultracold.
I thought that ultracold and ultra low momentum were basically
synonymous -- please correct me if I'm wrong. If
Eric,
If LENR neutrons are indeed generated as proposed by W-L, almost all will
be in the thermal range - quite a low momentum by fusion standards.
I believe some experimenters have detected escaping neutrons.
I do not know whether their measurements are valid.
If they are, we still have to
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