Out of curiosity, What does a 96 count terminate to at each end? Would you go into just a big wall of pigtails or what. Not being a smart ass here, I really dont know how you would manage that volume of fibers coming in the wall
On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 11:33 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > Both? Still working on it. At the costs some of these guys want, I'll > likely just be hiring dirt work. > > I got a quote of $3/ft just to draw lines on a map when I knew someone > building the whole thing for $7. Uh, no thanks. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> > *Sent: *Friday, February 15, 2019 10:49:53 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber > > Mike, > What did you have quoted? just dirt work or project end to end? > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:33 PM Tim Cailloux <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> You're not obligated by GAAP to treat book value of an asset as >> commercial value (i.e. "mark to market"), so it's appropriate to treat >> fiber as a long-lived depreciating asset. >> >> There may be some interesting accounting if you sign an IRU, and it turns >> out that accountants wrote a white paper on that: >> >> https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting/$FILE/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting-issue2.pdf >> >> I would be surprised if states have unfavorable tax treatment of fiber >> builds, and may even encourage it and give tax discounts. In Georgia, for >> example, tax credits are given to telecommunication builds. >> >> tim >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:44 PM Tim Withrow via AF <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> How is the yearly taxes on the physical fiber asset, in the states that >>> tax it? >>> >>> Is it a depreciating asset, or one that gains value generally? >>> ------------------------------ >>> On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I found a crew that'll do a ballpark drill cost of $7. I haven't gotten >>> any details yet about restoration, potholing, etc. I have some more crews >>> to follow up on. >>> >>> I was really targeting that for my total price due to what I heard >>> others in Indiana are paying, but it seems like I won't get there. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *[email protected] >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:05:56 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> Directional drilling will cost from $15-$25/ft. >>> Plowing about $4 - $6/ft >>> Excavation $8 –$15/ft >>> Blowing $.50 - $1/ft >>> Splicing $10-$20 per burn >>> >>> *From:* Mike Hammett >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:59 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> I've been asking around for companies to do a bunch of build up here. I >>> haven't liked most of the quotes I've seen. I'll let you know what I end up >>> doing. >>> >>> That said, I was probably going to do everything other than the dirt >>> work myself. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:47:01 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> In illinois, who would be a project contractor to approach for a >>> legitimate quote on a fiber project like this? Start to finish, permitting, >>> product spec, duct, fiber, terminations, handhole/vaults, trench/bore, etc >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Cost >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct >>> bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I like 100’ in each handhole. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>> >>> >>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>> >>> >>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>> >>> >>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>> >>> >>> >>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when installing >>> it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable you have to >>> take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once it’s >>> buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either have to >>> cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire remainder of >>> the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end under the >>> obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a seriously labor >>> intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do it. >>> >>> >>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >>> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >>> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>> >>> >>> 10% >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>> >>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>> >>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>> >>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>> >>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>> much money with direct burial. >>> >>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost savings >>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I guess. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>> >>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat it >>> up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave the >>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>> >>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches that >>> can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, test, >>> dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. OTDRs >>> are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% accurate, that >>> is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and then >>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>> >>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. Repeat >>> until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed and many >>> times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing the >>> problem. >>> >>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week to >>> fix very long remote troubles like this. >>> >>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>> >>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases where >>> direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>> >>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including a >>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>> conduit through. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into regular >>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to blow >>> it. >>> >>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>> >>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much easier >>> to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a non-crucial >>> line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we currently put >>> in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs low). >>> >>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit it's >>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even heard >>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line gets >>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>> repair to days or a week+. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 count >>> cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables though. >>> You really need someone who has done work in that area and is familiar with >>> permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that you can plow the >>> bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a ton of money vs >>> putting it all in duct. >>> >>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What would be >>> needed? >>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct being >>> better. >>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put in >>> the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have just >>> in case. >>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Tim Cailloux >> Southern Internet -- Locally Owned and Operated >> [email protected] >> (404) 406-9911 >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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