Usually they'll never blow more than 1-2 miles, then splice the separate pieces together.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:28 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > i cant count that high > > but i would like to see that volume terminated. > > Off the termination subject though, what are the logistics on 10 miles of > ducted fiber? Is it blown the whole ten miles in a single shot or spliced > at the intermediate handholes? Im trying to understand how handholes come > in to play in the path and what a reel with 10 miles+ fiber on it looks like > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:19 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: > >> hehe 96, what about a 864 or 3456 count :) >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:44 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Usually a rack mount patch & splice panel. Big box with 96 connectors on >>> the front and room for splice trays in the back. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 1:55 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Out of curiosity, What does a 96 count terminate to at each end? Would >>>> you go into just a big wall of pigtails or what. Not being a smart ass >>>> here, I really dont know how you would manage that volume of fibers coming >>>> in the wall >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 11:33 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Both? Still working on it. At the costs some of these guys want, I'll >>>>> likely just be hiring dirt work. >>>>> >>>>> I got a quote of $3/ft just to draw lines on a map when I knew someone >>>>> building the whole thing for $7. Uh, no thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>>> *Sent: *Friday, February 15, 2019 10:49:53 AM >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>> >>>>> Mike, >>>>> What did you have quoted? just dirt work or project end to end? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:33 PM Tim Cailloux < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You're not obligated by GAAP to treat book value of an asset as >>>>>> commercial value (i.e. "mark to market"), so it's appropriate to treat >>>>>> fiber as a long-lived depreciating asset. >>>>>> >>>>>> There may be some interesting accounting if you sign an IRU, and it >>>>>> turns out that accountants wrote a white paper on that: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting/$FILE/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting-issue2.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> I would be surprised if states have unfavorable tax treatment of >>>>>> fiber builds, and may even encourage it and give tax discounts. In >>>>>> Georgia, for example, tax credits are given to telecommunication builds. >>>>>> >>>>>> tim >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:44 PM Tim Withrow via AF <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> How is the yearly taxes on the physical fiber asset, in the states >>>>>>> that tax it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it a depreciating asset, or one that gains value generally? >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 Mike Hammett <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I found a crew that'll do a ballpark drill cost of $7. I haven't >>>>>>> gotten any details yet about restoration, potholing, etc. I have some >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> crews to follow up on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was really targeting that for my total price due to what I heard >>>>>>> others in Indiana are paying, but it seems like I won't get there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From: *[email protected] >>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:05:56 AM >>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Directional drilling will cost from $15-$25/ft. >>>>>>> Plowing about $4 - $6/ft >>>>>>> Excavation $8 –$15/ft >>>>>>> Blowing $.50 - $1/ft >>>>>>> Splicing $10-$20 per burn >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:59 AM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been asking around for companies to do a bunch of build up >>>>>>> here. I haven't liked most of the quotes I've seen. I'll let you know >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> I end up doing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That said, I was probably going to do everything other than the dirt >>>>>>> work myself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:47:01 AM >>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In illinois, who would be a project contractor to approach for a >>>>>>> legitimate quote on a fiber project like this? Start to finish, >>>>>>> permitting, >>>>>>> product spec, duct, fiber, terminations, handhole/vaults, trench/bore, >>>>>>> etc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cost >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would >>>>>>> direct bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like 100’ in each handhole. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>>>>>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>>>>>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>>>>>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. >>>>>>> If doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>>>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>>>>>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when >>>>>>> installing it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have to take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable >>>>>>> once >>>>>>> it’s buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either >>>>>>> have to cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire >>>>>>> remainder of the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end >>>>>>> under the obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a >>>>>>> seriously >>>>>>> labor intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say >>>>>>> for every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger >>>>>>> hits >>>>>>> the duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10% >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for >>>>>>> 28 cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>>>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>>>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>>>>>> much money with direct burial. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>>>>>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>>>>>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost >>>>>>> savings >>>>>>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>>>>>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>>>>>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I >>>>>>> guess. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat >>>>>>> it up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>>>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches >>>>>>> that can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, >>>>>>> test, dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. >>>>>>> OTDRs are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% >>>>>>> accurate, >>>>>>> that is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. >>>>>>> Repeat until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> many times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing >>>>>>> the problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week >>>>>>> to fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases >>>>>>> where direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>>>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>>>>>> conduit through. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>>>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>>>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into >>>>>>> regular >>>>>>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to >>>>>>> blow >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much >>>>>>> easier to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a >>>>>>> non-crucial line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we >>>>>>> currently put in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs >>>>>>> low). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>>>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even >>>>>>> heard >>>>>>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>>>>>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line >>>>>>> gets >>>>>>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>>>>>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>>>>>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>>>>>> repair to days or a week+. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 >>>>>>> count cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables >>>>>>> though. You really need someone who has done work in that area and is >>>>>>> familiar with permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can plow the bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a >>>>>>> ton >>>>>>> of money vs putting it all in duct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>>>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>>>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>>>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> needed? >>>>>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct >>>>>>> being better. >>>>>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put >>>>>>> in the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>>>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have >>>>>>> just in case. >>>>>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>>>>>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tim Cailloux >>>>>> Southern Internet -- Locally Owned and Operated >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> (404) 406-9911 >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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