i cant count that high but i would like to see that volume terminated.
Off the termination subject though, what are the logistics on 10 miles of ducted fiber? Is it blown the whole ten miles in a single shot or spliced at the intermediate handholes? Im trying to understand how handholes come in to play in the path and what a reel with 10 miles+ fiber on it looks like On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:19 PM TJ Trout <[email protected]> wrote: > hehe 96, what about a 864 or 3456 count :) > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:44 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Usually a rack mount patch & splice panel. Big box with 96 connectors on >> the front and room for splice trays in the back. >> >> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 1:55 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Out of curiosity, What does a 96 count terminate to at each end? Would >>> you go into just a big wall of pigtails or what. Not being a smart ass >>> here, I really dont know how you would manage that volume of fibers coming >>> in the wall >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 11:33 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Both? Still working on it. At the costs some of these guys want, I'll >>>> likely just be hiring dirt work. >>>> >>>> I got a quote of $3/ft just to draw lines on a map when I knew someone >>>> building the whole thing for $7. Uh, no thanks. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>> *Sent: *Friday, February 15, 2019 10:49:53 AM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> What did you have quoted? just dirt work or project end to end? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:33 PM Tim Cailloux <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You're not obligated by GAAP to treat book value of an asset as >>>>> commercial value (i.e. "mark to market"), so it's appropriate to treat >>>>> fiber as a long-lived depreciating asset. >>>>> >>>>> There may be some interesting accounting if you sign an IRU, and it >>>>> turns out that accountants wrote a white paper on that: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting/$FILE/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting-issue2.pdf >>>>> >>>>> I would be surprised if states have unfavorable tax treatment of fiber >>>>> builds, and may even encourage it and give tax discounts. In Georgia, for >>>>> example, tax credits are given to telecommunication builds. >>>>> >>>>> tim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:44 PM Tim Withrow via AF <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How is the yearly taxes on the physical fiber asset, in the states >>>>>> that tax it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it a depreciating asset, or one that gains value generally? >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> I found a crew that'll do a ballpark drill cost of $7. I haven't >>>>>> gotten any details yet about restoration, potholing, etc. I have some >>>>>> more >>>>>> crews to follow up on. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was really targeting that for my total price due to what I heard >>>>>> others in Indiana are paying, but it seems like I won't get there. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From: *[email protected] >>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:05:56 AM >>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> Directional drilling will cost from $15-$25/ft. >>>>>> Plowing about $4 - $6/ft >>>>>> Excavation $8 –$15/ft >>>>>> Blowing $.50 - $1/ft >>>>>> Splicing $10-$20 per burn >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett >>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:59 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been asking around for companies to do a bunch of build up here. >>>>>> I haven't liked most of the quotes I've seen. I'll let you know what I >>>>>> end >>>>>> up doing. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, I was probably going to do everything other than the dirt >>>>>> work myself. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >>>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> >>>>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:47:01 AM >>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> In illinois, who would be a project contractor to approach for a >>>>>> legitimate quote on a fiber project like this? Start to finish, >>>>>> permitting, >>>>>> product spec, duct, fiber, terminations, handhole/vaults, trench/bore, >>>>>> etc >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Cost >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct >>>>>> bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I like 100’ in each handhole. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>>>>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>>>>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>>>>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. >>>>>> If doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>>>>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when >>>>>> installing it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable >>>>>> you >>>>>> have to take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once >>>>>> it’s buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either >>>>>> have to cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire >>>>>> remainder of the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end >>>>>> under the obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a >>>>>> seriously >>>>>> labor intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >>>>>> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >>>>>> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 10% >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>>>>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>>>>> much money with direct burial. >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>>>>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>>>>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost >>>>>> savings >>>>>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>>>>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>>>>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I guess. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <[email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat >>>>>> it up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave >>>>>> the >>>>>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches >>>>>> that can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, >>>>>> test, dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. >>>>>> OTDRs are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% >>>>>> accurate, >>>>>> that is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and >>>>>> then >>>>>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. >>>>>> Repeat until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed >>>>>> and >>>>>> many times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing >>>>>> the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week >>>>>> to fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases >>>>>> where direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>>>> >>>>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including a >>>>>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>>>>> conduit through. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into >>>>>> regular >>>>>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to blow >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>>>> >>>>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much >>>>>> easier to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a >>>>>> non-crucial line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we >>>>>> currently put in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs >>>>>> low). >>>>>> >>>>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit >>>>>> it's >>>>>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even heard >>>>>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>>>>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line >>>>>> gets >>>>>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>>>>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>>>>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>>>>> repair to days or a week+. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 count >>>>>> cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables though. >>>>>> You really need someone who has done work in that area and is familiar >>>>>> with >>>>>> permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that you can plow >>>>>> the >>>>>> bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a ton of money vs >>>>>> putting it all in duct. >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <[email protected] >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What would >>>>>> be >>>>>> needed? >>>>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct >>>>>> being better. >>>>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put in >>>>>> the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have >>>>>> just in case. >>>>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>>>>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tim Cailloux >>>>> Southern Internet -- Locally Owned and Operated >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> (404) 406-9911 >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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