Usually a rack mount patch & splice panel. Big box with 96 connectors on the front and room for splice trays in the back.
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 1:55 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > Out of curiosity, What does a 96 count terminate to at each end? Would you > go into just a big wall of pigtails or what. Not being a smart ass here, I > really dont know how you would manage that volume of fibers coming in the > wall > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 11:33 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> Both? Still working on it. At the costs some of these guys want, I'll >> likely just be hiring dirt work. >> >> I got a quote of $3/ft just to draw lines on a map when I knew someone >> building the whole thing for $7. Uh, no thanks. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >> *Sent: *Friday, February 15, 2019 10:49:53 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >> >> Mike, >> What did you have quoted? just dirt work or project end to end? >> >> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:33 PM Tim Cailloux <t...@southern-internet.com> >> wrote: >> >>> You're not obligated by GAAP to treat book value of an asset as >>> commercial value (i.e. "mark to market"), so it's appropriate to treat >>> fiber as a long-lived depreciating asset. >>> >>> There may be some interesting accounting if you sign an IRU, and it >>> turns out that accountants wrote a white paper on that: >>> >>> https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting/$FILE/ey-spotlight-on-telecommunications-accounting-issue2.pdf >>> >>> I would be surprised if states have unfavorable tax treatment of fiber >>> builds, and may even encourage it and give tax discounts. In Georgia, for >>> example, tax credits are given to telecommunication builds. >>> >>> tim >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:44 PM Tim Withrow via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> How is the yearly taxes on the physical fiber asset, in the states >>>> that tax it? >>>> >>>> Is it a depreciating asset, or one that gains value generally? >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> On Wednesday, February 13, 2019 Mike Hammett <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: >>>> I found a crew that'll do a ballpark drill cost of $7. I haven't gotten >>>> any details yet about restoration, potholing, etc. I have some more crews >>>> to follow up on. >>>> >>>> I was really targeting that for my total price due to what I heard >>>> others in Indiana are paying, but it seems like I won't get there. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com >>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 11:05:56 AM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> Directional drilling will cost from $15-$25/ft. >>>> Plowing about $4 - $6/ft >>>> Excavation $8 –$15/ft >>>> Blowing $.50 - $1/ft >>>> Splicing $10-$20 per burn >>>> >>>> *From:* Mike Hammett >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:59 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> I've been asking around for companies to do a bunch of build up here. I >>>> haven't liked most of the quotes I've seen. I'll let you know what I end up >>>> doing. >>>> >>>> That said, I was probably going to do everything other than the dirt >>>> work myself. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>> >>>> >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> >>>> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2019 10:47:01 AM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> In illinois, who would be a project contractor to approach for a >>>> legitimate quote on a fiber project like this? Start to finish, permitting, >>>> product spec, duct, fiber, terminations, handhole/vaults, trench/bore, etc >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:47 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cost >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 3:32 PM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> oh. I cant see that if we ever did this type of fiber we would direct >>>> bury. aside from cost is there any reason one wouldnt duct? >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:24 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I like 100’ in each handhole. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 24, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> 300k was a quote at one point. Weve got a little under half that in >>>> microwave solutions spread over the years and we are coming up on >>>> consistent 1/3 capacity with spikes over half, so we will outgrow that >>>> investment again in a relatively short period. >>>> >>>> >>>> 30k / mile is pretty typical. >>>> >>>> >>>> "You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility." >>>> >>>> >>>> I assume these figure8 are slack and in handhole/vaults? so in rural >>>> areas, at least 1 per mile since theres a road every mile? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nope. The figure-8 is how you have to handle the cable when >>>> installing it if you don’t have duct. When direct burying the cable you >>>> have to take the spool with you as you go since you can’t pull cable once >>>> it’s buried. Every time you need to pass under an obstacle you either >>>> have to cut the fiber and splice it back together or pull the entire >>>> remainder of the cable off the real, store it temporarily, shove the end >>>> under the obstacle and then reel up all the cable again. It’s a seriously >>>> labor intensive process and you risk damaging the cable every time you do >>>> it. >>>> >>>> >>>> Whats the rule of thumb on slack? is there a percentage? like say for >>>> every 1000 feet you have x feet of slack? I aasume when an auger hits the >>>> duct it will pull alot of that slack? >>>> >>>> >>>> 10% >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:04 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Duct can be had for 35 cents / foot or less. I was getting it for 28 >>>> cents until the extrusion company went BK. >>>> >>>> You can cut and splice duct when going over and under obstacles. If >>>> doing direct burial you would be doing giant figure 8s or cutting and >>>> splicing every time you hit a culvert or other shallow facility. >>>> >>>> You can blow another fiber over the top of an existing fiber. >>>> >>>> Fewer fiber cuts and splices etc. In my opinion you don’t save that >>>> much money with direct burial. >>>> >>>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 10:53 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> I know we've had this discussion before.... we don't have gophers in >>>> Michigan. Only damage we have had on direct bury was due to gas company. >>>> Yeah it was a pain to fix, about 8 hours of downtime. But the cost savings >>>> is worth it to me for my network. We are doing FTTH so we do have more >>>> handholes for test points. Usually at least 6 per mile. Don't know where >>>> Steve is or how well funded so just sharing a lower cost option, I guess. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:15 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>> >>>> The worst part of direct burial is gopher damage. And they will eat it >>>> up on 100 places but they may not fail until there is some nearby >>>> vibration. They seem to have the ability to eat up the cable but leave the >>>> strands intact or just break one or two of them. >>>> >>>> Yes, you first have to find the damage and in long rural stretches that >>>> can be difficult, more so with direct because you have to dig, cut, test, >>>> dig cut test. With duct you just pull on it and see if it moves. OTDRs >>>> are not precision measuring devices. Even if they are +-1% accurate, that >>>> is 52 feet of uncertainty in a mile. So you shoot both ends and then >>>> extrapolate the center of overlap or gap. >>>> >>>> Pray, dig, cut, test, splice, pray, dig, cuts, test, splice. Repeat >>>> until you get there. After some time you will have it bracketed and many >>>> times you just replace 1000’ instead of actually finding and fixing the >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> All the while customers are very unhappy. I have had it take a week to >>>> fix very long remote troubles like this. >>>> >>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:56 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> We also usually install a second duct on all major routes. >>>> >>>> Chuck, with your long career, I assume that you've had a few cases >>>> where direct burial took a long time/difficulties to fix? >>>> >>>> Now working in the long-distance/underground industry, doing all the >>>> planning and permitting, I've seen our guys pull up things - including a >>>> boulder the size of a car - from the ground so that they could get that >>>> conduit through. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 10:48 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I never do direct burial any more. Not even on drops. Generally I >>>> install an extra duct, I like duralines future path products if I can >>>> justify the expense. I need to learn how to install microduct into regular >>>> duct. I am sure I can pull it but I would like to figure out how to blow >>>> it. >>>> >>>> *From:* Colin Stanners >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 22, 2018 9:42 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 10 mile fiber >>>> >>>> I try hard to steer clear of direct-burying cable, which is much easier >>>> to damage and extremely time-consuming to repair, unless it's a non-crucial >>>> line (e.g. standard residential customer, although those we currently put >>>> in conduit as well, to keep future risk and repair costs low). >>>> >>>> If this customer is paying 1/4 million to get a line installed, it's >>>> probably crucial. One day when that line gets hit, if it's in conduit it's >>>> likely possible to get it repaired within hours to a day. I've even heard >>>> of cases of the fiber surviving a conduit-line hit since it's "loose" >>>> inside the conduit and has slack at the ends. If a direct-buried line gets >>>> hit, especially next to a road etc, it may be needed to get locates, >>>> arrange a drill, electrical/gas line safety watch, etc, possibly even >>>> arrange more permitting for a new vault, which will often move time to >>>> repair to days or a week+. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 9:28 AM Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Steve in our area we could do that "on the cheap" with 12 or 24 count >>>> cable direct buried for around 100k. There are so many variables though. >>>> You really need someone who has done work in that area and is familiar with >>>> permitting costs and requirements. I'd it's so rural that you can plow the >>>> bulk of it and you are OK with direct bury you can save a ton of money vs >>>> putting it all in duct. >>>> >>>> Personally I run at least 24 strands on any run that's going >>>> "somewhere". Dead end runs can be 12F. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 1:46 AM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> If a guy wanted to get fiber in the ground, non aerial between two >>>> buildings to replace an existing licensed 1.3 gb link. Crosses 3 >>>> creek/ditches, 10 rural intersections, 10 rural town blocks. What would be >>>> needed? >>>> I would guess that duct is the best thing to put it in, innerduct being >>>> better. >>>> I'd guess 96+ count isn't going to cost any more per strand to put in >>>> the duct than 2 (not the cost of the fiber itself) >>>> Lots of dark strands and duct space is probably lucrative to have just >>>> in case. >>>> Slack, handholes, vaults, etc, what would you put in there? 10 or so >>>> customers on the path so not a ftth type thing. >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tim Cailloux >>> Southern Internet -- Locally Owned and Operated >>> t...@southern-internet.com >>> (404) 406-9911 >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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