On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:12 AM, John Rose via AGI <[email protected]> wrote:
> It has to have a connection to physics particularly engineering in this > case. Theories that claim to break the laws of physics still reside within > the laws of physics. Even a bunch of abstract math still is represented and > operates within those laws. There may be new laws unknown... With human > consciousness theories I think we need to keep a keen eye on developments > in quantum consciousness. Engineering consciousness might only require > subset and functionality equivalences to get something up and running not > the whole kit and caboodle with Psi et al. I think that what Ben is driving > towards with his paper in terms of characterizing human-like consciousness. > You have to know what it is before you build it. > Take a look at this article. It may turn out that quantum principles are only a subset of a more detailed deterministic principles, but the greatest likelihood is still that you won't know what it is before you build it. http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality Jim Bromer On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:12 AM, John Rose via AGI <[email protected]> wrote: > It has to have a connection to physics particularly engineering in this > case. Theories that claim to break the laws of physics still reside within > the laws of physics. Even a bunch of abstract math still is represented and > operates within those laws. There may be new laws unknown... With human > consciousness theories I think we need to keep a keen eye on developments > in quantum consciousness. Engineering consciousness might only require > subset and functionality equivalences to get something up and running not > the whole kit and caboodle with Psi et al. I think that what Ben is driving > towards with his paper in terms of characterizing human-like consciousness. > You have to know what it is before you build it. > > > > John > > > > *From:* martin biehl via AGI [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 9, 2014 9:23 PM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* Re: [agi] Review paper on measuring consciousness > > > > Thanks John, that helped me more than those links. So does it have a > connection to physics at all or is it more like a "pure mental substance" > theory as opposed to the physical "pure material substance" theories? If it > is purely mental, again thanks for the heads up. > > > > Then I am intrigued. Are there other ones in the same vein? Maybe with > fewer axioms? Well now that I think of it the standard model needs a lot of > axioms as well if you were to list them all at once I guess... So tell me > guys is there more like that out there? I only know about physicalist > formal theories. Must be my education.... > > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The Extended Mind hypothesis isn't really nonsense; Andy Clark and > others have made a pretty strong case that it's valuable to contain > tools and other parts of an agent's nearby, habitual environment as > part of the agent's mind (since they are engaged in tight feedback > loops w/ the other parts of the agent's mind, and the other parts of > the agent's mind have specifically adapted to them) > > It's hard to effectively analyze the average Hongkongese girl's mind > without considering her smartphone as part of the system, for example > ;-) > > -- Ben G > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Matt Mahoney via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > > That's being kind. Actually it is complete nonsense. > > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Ben Goertzel via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Yes, that's interesting. More consideration of the Extended Mind > >> aspects of consciousness would probably be valuable to incorporate in > >> the paper... > >> > >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:44 PM, John Rose via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> Adding to my comment, one could characterize human-like consciousness > in terms of relationships and beliefs borrowed from social systems theory > including ideas and things similar to Deontical Impure Systems, Alysidal > algebra, gnorpsic functions, etc.. Consciousness you could say is relations > between systems and in this particular case human belief systems, see: > >>> > >>> http://www.gallup.unm.edu/~smarandache/Tesis_Nescolarde.pdf > >>> http://pubs.sciepub.com/ajss/2/2/2/ > > > > -- > > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > AGI > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: > https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19237892-5029d625 > > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "In an insane world, the sane man must appear to be insane". -- Capt. > James T. Kirk > > "Emancipate yourself from mental slavery / None but ourselves can free > our minds" -- Robert Nesta Marley > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10872673-8f99760d > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029-82d9122f>| Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-f5817f28> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
