The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 647 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? e34 525iA heated seats Re: e34 525iA heated seats Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Tweaked E46's (was: Re: e46 advice ) Re: Tweaked E46's (was: Re: e46 advice ) Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? Re: OT - Dune (was Re: E34 Touring questions) Looking at a '98 540i 6 speed
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 14:55:30 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I live a lot farther south than you do, but having the Scooby Doo with 4 ice grip/snow tires has made me a believer. AWD + snows is for sure the way to go. I didn't get Blizzaks since under the ice grip cap is an all season tread - which I don't want. The Guardex or Graspic grip tires have the same design all the way through. It is also nice to leave the expensive cars at home and venture out among the great un-washed (and bald tired) with a cheaper car :-) Dennis 01 M5 silver/black (for sale) At 02:11 PM 05/05/2005 -0400, Erik Rutberg wrote: >I have always been among those that said AWD is not needed in my area >(Doylestown, near >Philadelphia, PA). I've never had problems with RWD and snows. > >When my first child was born last year, it was time for a wagon. I wanted >a 325iT (330 if >they would bring it here), but my wife is the primary driver and wanted >the 325xiT. We >have 4 RWDs cars and 1 FWD car, so I gave in. Picked up the car at the end >of winter last >year, so I kept the all-seasons on for the year. The one storm we had >that winter >confimed my belief that RWD and snows was vastly better. > >This winter we had Blizzaks on the car. I am so happy we bought the >325xiT over the RWD. > I've always gotten around with RWD, but I would stay away from my twisty > route to work >(Lincoln & Kelly Drives), and back streets. This year I couldn't wait to >drive on those >same roads. Back streets in Philly never get plowed. I can't get my >other cars down them >for days, or weeks after a snow. The 325xiT has more ground clearance >then many SUVs, and >had no problems with the unplowed roads. I'm sure the extra weight >compromises braking, >but the car still stops better that 95% of the cars out there. > >If we only had a couple cars, we would still go with the RWD, but it is >great to have one >car we know will get out in extreme conditions. > >Erik Rutberg >2004 325xiT >2003 MINI Cooper S, very modified >1997 318ti/Dinan3, supercharged >1988 ///M5 >1985 735iA, currently on life support >1973 2002, never has, never will see the snow >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:16:30 -0400 From: "Della Barba, Joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The problem in Maryland (at least the Eastern end of it) is that you can go YEARS between needing snow tires. Every year I swore to mount them on my MR2 and I never would because then I would be driving on dry pavement 99% of the time and just wear them out. When we had the record blizzard a coupe of years ago my wife's Avalon with traction control was fantastic on the regular tires. Joe Della Barba 323iT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 13:39:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dennis, You didn't address my question what so ever. You posted that "..they found that AWD with all season tires was better than FWD with snows. So I would assume the fall off to RWD with snows would be more so." So, the way I read that is that you said AWD with all season is best, FWD with snows second, and RWD with snows third. I simply don't agree necessarily that there would be a "fall off" of the RWD with snows from FWD with snows as you stated. --- Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 07:10 AM 05/05/2005 -0700, Richard Dorffer wrote: > >--- Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I will paste a snippet of what consumer reports tested on this subject. > > > They found that AWD with all season tires was better than > > > FWD with snows. So I would assume the fall off to RWD with snows would be > > > more so. > > > >Really? Why? > > > All the snow tires I have used have tons more tread depth than all season > tires. More depth normally means more snow > grip so you have more to work with. By taking off the snows except during > the heart of winter one set can last for years. That is what I do, but what does this have to do with my question as to your comment that RWD with snows would "fall off" from FWD with snows? > I would agree that if you are buying a new car and have the choice of > paying a good bit more for AWD that for a lot of areas of the > country you could get snow tires for less and be OK. Snow tires and cheap > steel wheels (for most cars) and pretty cheap and > no good reason you can't have both AWD and snows. For bang for the buck, > snow tires on spare rims would be my choice over > JUST AWD. Personally, I would rather have the best tires for dry/wet for six seasons and cold/snow for the other six seasons like I do now. > Like I said all seasons tires do nothing well - less grip in wet and dry > than summer tread tires and less grip > on snow and ice than snow tires - so I don't run them on my cars. Me either. Regards, Rich 95 M3 - shod with Michelin PS2s or Toyo RA1 90 325is - shod with new Michelin PE2s soon 91 318is - running off crappy Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 but run Nokian Hakka Qs in the winter on dedicated wheels.... '00 Accord - Michelin all-seasons in the summer, Nokian Hakka Q for winter on dedicated wheels ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 14:36:11 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My last non-BMW was an '81 Honda Accord hatchback, and in winter it had studded Vredestein Snow+ tires on all four wheels. It was a great shop car and beater, better in New Jersey snow and slop to anything any of the BMWs I worked on could do, but fun it wasn't. I learned true winter weather driving fun in my father's Pontiac with the big 400 engine, posi (none a that limited slip nonsense) rear, and two tons of rear-wheel drive Detroit iron pressing Firestone studded snows hard on the road. Sometimes the only way up the hill we lived on was to set the studs spinning, kicking out rooster tails of snow and slush and half frozen road-salty slop and based on the stud grooves we and the neighbors left on the street, probably some asphalt too. That was _real traction. Barry Richard Dorffer wrote: >Dennis, > >You didn't address my question what so ever. You posted that "..they found >that AWD with all >season tires was better than FWD with snows. So I would assume the fall off to >RWD with snows >would be more so." > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:48:09 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In THEIR tests that reported AWD with all season best, then FWD with snows, then FWD with all seasons - they didn't test RWD at all. So I don't know if RWD w/snows would place ahead of FWD with all season tires or not - IN THEIR TESTS. From having driven in snow with and without snow tires and with FWD (maybe 70-80% of the weight over the driving and steering wheels) and RWD (even a 50-50 BMW) and now AWD I can tell you I would take FWD with snows over RWD with snows in the traction (to move the car forward) department. RWD is quite a bit more fun, however :-) You can put snow tires on a RWD pickup with nothing in the back and you aren't going anywhere. Much as I hate driving a FWD car they ARE good in the snow - with or without snow tires. Dennis 01 M5 silver/black (for sale) At 01:39 PM 05/05/2005 -0700, Richard Dorffer wrote: >Dennis, > >You didn't address my question what so ever. You posted that "..they >found that AWD with all >season tires was better than FWD with snows. So I would assume the fall >off to RWD with snows >would be more so." > >So, the way I read that is that you said AWD with all season is best, FWD >with snows second, and >RWD with snows third. > >I simply don't agree necessarily that there would be a "fall off" of the >RWD with snows from FWD >with snows as you stated. > >--- Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 07:10 AM 05/05/2005 -0700, Richard Dorffer wrote: > > >--- Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I will paste a snippet of what consumer reports tested on this subject. > > > > They found that AWD with all season tires was better than > > > > FWD with snows. So I would assume the fall off to RWD with snows > would be > > > > more so. > > > > > >Really? Why? > > > > > > All the snow tires I have used have tons more tread depth than all season > > tires. More depth normally means more snow > > grip so you have more to work with. By taking off the snows except during > > the heart of winter one set can last for years. > >That is what I do, but what does this have to do with my question as to >your comment that RWD with >snows would "fall off" from FWD with snows? > > > I would agree that if you are buying a new car and have the choice of > > paying a good bit more for AWD that for a lot of areas of the > > country you could get snow tires for less and be OK. Snow tires and cheap > > steel wheels (for most cars) and pretty cheap and > > no good reason you can't have both AWD and snows. For bang for the buck, > > snow tires on spare rims would be my choice over > > JUST AWD. > >Personally, I would rather have the best tires for dry/wet for six seasons >and cold/snow for the >other six seasons like I do now. > > > Like I said all seasons tires do nothing well - less grip in wet and dry > > than summer tread tires and less grip > > on snow and ice than snow tires - so I don't run them on my cars. > >Me either. > >Regards, > >Rich > >95 M3 - shod with Michelin PS2s or Toyo RA1 >90 325is - shod with new Michelin PE2s soon >91 318is - running off crappy Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 but run Nokian Hakka >Qs in the winter on >dedicated wheels.... >'00 Accord - Michelin all-seasons in the summer, Nokian Hakka Q for winter >on dedicated wheels ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:59:28 -0400 From: Ben Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> M coupe, no question. you have the LR for what little snow you might get, so FWD/RWD not a factor. the M coupe will not depreciate much if you buy the right one. tho the residual value on Minis is strong at this point. the M coupe is _much_ faster than the Mini. the Cooper S isn't much more economical than the M coupe - I don't recall that we got better than 26mpg on ours much & my M coupe didn't get much worse than 22mpg IIRC. there's reasonable utility in the M coupe's hatch area for carrying stuff, tho the Mini does have a bit more room. again, drive the LR if you need to haul stuff. the subframe issues on the MZ3 are pretty well documented and you should be able to determine whether a prospective purchase has the issue (massive leverage with the current owner) or has had the issue repaired (still leverage with the current owner) without too much trouble. I dunno whether anyone has any sort of definitive answer as to why this happens, but I'd guess it's softish subframe bushings and lots of power which allow the whole system to flex more than it should, which fatigues the metal. Ben John wrote: > I need (read: would like, and this is a good excuse) a more economical car to > commute/run around Atlanta in. By more economical I simply mean get's better > gas mileage than the current 13.6mpg I get with the Land Rover. I'd like > something cool and fun and not another E36 M3 since I've had one already. > Budget like $20k. The two cars I've been wavering back and forth on are the > MINI Cooper S and the M-coupe. The Cooper would, of course, be newer and > FWD, and the M-coupe an M-coupe. > > Any easy thoughts would be appreciated such as: "don't get that car, it's > impossible to work on," or "that car's so much fun to drive" or even, "the > rear subframe tears itself out of that car, don't even think about it." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:30:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 5/5/05 2:50 PM, CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Humm 240 HP M coupe or 168HP & FWD. Seems a no brainer to me. > > Written like somebody who has never driven the MCS! I'd have to agree with Karl. I've autoxed both of Ben's cars (well his wife's Cooper S) and his M Coupe. No doubt about it I wouldn't even think about the Cooper S. Of course one of my biggest complaints was that it didn't have a LSD and now they do. D'oh! M Coupe, M Coupe, M Coupe. -Carlos. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:19:34 -0500 From: "Beaudette, Roland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Uuc \(E-mail\)" <[email protected]> Subject: e34 525iA heated seats Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In disassembling the front seats, I found the charred remains of an electrical switch. How can I determine if this was for heated seats? I think the only other option is that these are memory seats? Anyone know how I could jumper power to the seats and verify functionality? Cheers, Roland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 18:25:21 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: e34 525iA heated seats Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Another alternative: Seatbelt/airbag sensor switch Ed Beaudette, Roland wrote: > I think the only other option is that these are memory seats? > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:28:05 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AWD vs. RWD and Snow Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Not really. Sipes and tread stiffness have a large effect, both change as a tire wears. The type of snow matters a lot also. Gary Derian > All the snow tires I have used have tons more tread depth than all season > tires. More depth normally means more snow > grip so you have more to work with. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:46:28 -0400 From: "Peter Guagenti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Tweaked E46's (was: Re: e46 advice ) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Anyone drop a 3.0 > into a 325ixT? That has to be a cheaper engine...maybe I could > steal the one out of my '95 e36 M3.... I have been seriously considering this for some time. I am a huge fan of the E46 chassis, but my experience with my 330iPP was less than stellar. If it weren't for the draconian smog laws here in CA, I would build my own E46 332i using an IP-level S52 and a donor '99 328i sport (sub $20k now). Call Rob for some real brakes, Jay Morris for a good suspension, install an actual limited slip, and swipe some of the nicer interior and exterior cosmetic parts off of the PP. That would be a very sweet ride. Maybe I can talk my sister in Oregon into licensing it for me... -peter*g ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:10:07 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tweaked E46's (was: Re: e46 advice ) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Guagenti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [UUC] Tweaked E46's (was: Re: e46 advice ) > I am a huge fan of the E46 chassis, but my experience with my 330iPP was less than stellar. What happened? I thought you were pleased with the car, at least initially. > If it weren't for the draconian smog laws here in CA, I would build my own E46 332i using an IP-level S52 and a donor '99 328i sport (sub $20k now). That's something I have been curious about; same-year production, so smog qualifications would be the same. Why wouldn't this be legal, at least with an unmodified S52? - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:27:41 -0500 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: M-coupe or Cooper S? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 5/5/05 2:50 PM, "John Stoj" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OK folks, time for some more opinions please. Oh no, we're fresh out of those... > I'd like something cool and fun and not another E36 M3 since I've had one > already. Budget like $20k. The two cars I've been wavering back and forth on > are the MINI Cooper S and the M-coupe. The Cooper would, of course, be newer > and FWD, and the M-coupe and M-coupe. I have to tell you, the Cooper S is a real blast to drive. The only trouble is that they hold their value awfully well, so your $20K gets you a 2 year old with modest equipment and 30K miles. A new 05 Cooper S with no options (which you'd never find) runs just under $21K, decently equipped they're $24-25K or more. If the MCS interests you, don't be put off by the FWD - this is a very nice handling car. Quality is better on later Minis. For similar money I'd sooner go with a 2004 with more miles than a 2002-2003 with fewer. Cars.com shows quite a few. I've always had a soft spot for the M Coupe, but it was such a niche market car, and somehow I feel its moment has passed. Others may disagree; we all have our favourites. on 5/5/05 2:50 PM, CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Humm 240 HP M coupe or 168HP & FWD. Seems a no brainer to me. Written like somebody who has never driven the MCS! Factor in that the MCS weighs under 2700 lbs and that an inexpensive supercharger pulley upgrade can easily bump that 168hp to 200+ and you may see a different picture. Either way, after the Land Rover I imagine that either of these will seem like a brand new world of driving... Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:39:18 -0500 From: "Andrew Harkonen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUCDigest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: OT - Dune (was Re: E34 Touring questions) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Going way OT here but since you guys brought it up.... My uncle - once removed, used to work with Scott Herbert, author of Dune, (I have yet to read the book BTW) at the National plywood association up in the Pacific northwest on a one year job assignment. Herbert stole the name from my uncle and used it in his books. The only difference being he added an extra "n". My aunt, has a letter from Herbert documenting all this. Thanks for all the help with the Touring questions. Andrew Harkonen '89 535i 5spd '93 525iT (spice wagon) -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 50 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 15:26:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Looking at a '98 540i 6 speed Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi group, I'm considering a '98 540i 6 speed (~65K miles) to replace my aged 535i. I have a couple of questions: Are all 6 speeds for that year the sport model? What are the differences if not? What are the trouble areas in this model? Thanks Mike Fox __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
