The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 643 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: <E36> bunwarmers Re: <E36> bunwarmers Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Re: e46 advice - and why isn't there a 330xiT? e46 advice Re: e46 advice Re: AWD...was e46 advice Re: AWD...was e46 advice Big Motor Cert Re: e46 advice - and why isn't there a 330xiT?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 09:34:39 -0700 From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bunwarmers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Is there some easily correctible _silly error a dealer mechanic could have made when replacing the seatback heater that would have left the seatbottom inoperable? tia, Barry KMS- Brett Anderson wrote: >E36 vehicles have the only truly serviceable seat heaters. In my dealer >days, I could do an E36 "luxury" seat base heater in about 4 minutes. Today >it'd take me 20. > >Buy the heater element, about $80, and 4 of the plastic securing pins plus >some hog rings for the leather. > >Grab the seat base foam and pull straight up, you'll break at least 2 of the >4 plastic pins, that's why you bought 4 new ones. > >Disconnect the wiring harness from the heat element, cut the hog rings off, >pull the leather off, replace the mat and reverse for installation. > >Brett Anderson >KMS > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>In the driver's seat, the seat-back gets warm but the seat- >>bottom doesn't. In the passenger's seat, both get warm. I'm >>guessing that the p-seat is working as intended, and the d-seat >>is not. >> >>How much pain and suffering is involved in repair? Of course >>I've attempted no diagnostics yet, maybe there's just a loose >>connector. Of course, if there's just one connector for the >>entire seat then the fact of the seatback getting warm would >>scuttle that idea... >> >> > > > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > -- The box said "Requires Windows 95, or better." So I bought a Macintosh. I live with fear, death, and evil...but I used to be able to turn it off and use a Mac. " Author Unknown Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 12:38:45 -0400 From: "KMS- Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> bunwarmers Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah, it could be unplugged. But more likely, the element is bad. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > Is there some easily correctible _silly error a dealer mechanic could > have made when replacing the seatback heater that would have left the > seatbottom inoperable? > tia, > Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:18:35 -0400 From: Phil Marx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That must not be a requirement any more or how could they justify the short-wheelbase 760i? (34 of those puppies sold in the first quarter '05, divide that into a million bucks.) -Phil Gilbert Hoffman wrote: >AFAIK it cost about $1M for the certification of each driveline/body style. >That means they would most likely only offer a 330xiT with automatic. As the >demand won't be met for the manual. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:24:36 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>, "Phil Marx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Any certified engine/transmission unit can be installed in a lighter vehicle with no additional emissions or durability testing. Gary Derian > That must not be a requirement any more or how could they justify the > short-wheelbase 760i? (34 of those puppies sold in the first quarter '05, > divide that into a million bucks.) > > -Phil > > Gilbert Hoffman wrote: >>AFAIK it cost about $1M for the certification of each driveline/body >>style. >>That means they would most likely only offer a 330xiT with automatic. As >>the >>demand won't be met for the manual. .com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:30:39 -0400 From: Phil Marx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wow! So it's strictly for emissions reasons, meaning if you stuck a V12 (or V10) BMW engine in an already-certified but lighter BMW body, there's be no need to crash test it? Like a 1-Series with a V12? You'd think they'd at least need to crash it, or make sure the size of the cat was the same and worked as well. But then isn't most of the emission testing done as self-certification by the manufacturers anyway? Crash testing, too? -Phil At 1:24 PM -0400 5/4/05, Gary Derian wrote: >Any certified engine/transmission unit can be installed in a lighter >vehicle with no additional emissions or durability testing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:43:27 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>, "Phil Marx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> No not crash testing, that is different. Crush space and crumple zones are very important. The engine, trans, catalyst, controls, gear ratio are all certified as a unit for emissions, economy, emissions durability and more. Once certified, it can go into a lighter vehicle with no additional emissions, economy, emissions durability, etc. tests. Gary Derian > Wow! So it's strictly for emissions reasons, meaning if you stuck a V12 > (or V10) BMW engine in an already-certified but lighter BMW body, there's > be no need to crash test it? Like a 1-Series with a V12? You'd think > they'd at least need to crash it, or make sure the size of the cat was the > same and worked as well. But then isn't most of the emission testing done > as self-certification by the manufacturers anyway? Crash testing, too? > > -Phil > > At 1:24 PM -0400 5/4/05, Gary Derian wrote: >>Any certified engine/transmission unit can be installed in a lighter >>vehicle with no additional emissions or durability testing. > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:09:48 -0400 From: Ben Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> AFAIK crash testing & emissions are two different gov't departments. yes, most emissions testing is self-certification by the manufacturers. they still have to spend the money to prove to themselves that the calculations are correct, as the EPA can ask to test the vehicle on their equipment even if the maker has already done it & found it to perform as expected. I dunno the exact specifics of how the crash testing rules are set up, but the swapping of engines between cars would generally only apply to similar platforms & engines. so a 3.0 vs 2.5 might not require additional testing. but a 3.0d vs a 3.0 gas would definitely not fly. so no dice on your V10 1-seires. it wouldn't fit anyway... crash testing isn't really all that expensive, perhaps $50k on top of the cost of the vehicle involved. I don't believe that crash testing is a self-certification process, but car companies certainly crash lots of vehicles on their own before submitting the final product to the gov't to be certified. the big cost in certifiying & calibrating a new engine for a market is paperwork + lots of time on the road testing + all the coding & re-coding for the DME to make it run the way you want it to on the wide variety of fuels that it will be exposed to. Ben Phil wrote: > Wow! So it's strictly for emissions reasons, meaning if you stuck a > V12 (or V10) BMW engine in an already-certified but lighter BMW body, > there's be no need to crash test it? Like a 1-Series with a V12? > You'd think they'd at least need to crash it, or make sure the size > of the cat was the same and worked as well. But then isn't most of > the emission testing done as self-certification by the manufacturers > anyway? Crash testing, too? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:18:45 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ben Keyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: No big motor tourings was E46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Safety is self certified Gary Derian > crash testing isn't really all that expensive, perhaps $50k on top of > the cost of the vehicle involved. I don't believe that crash testing is > a self-certification process, but car companies certainly crash lots > of vehicles on their own before submitting the final product to the > gov't to be certified. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:28:45 -0400 From: rmplum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e46 advice - and why isn't there a 330xiT? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 5/4/05, Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why do you need AWD? 4 snow tires with RWD are better than all season tires > and AWD. > > Gary Derian To this I would add that AWD + snow tires = an insane amount of fun in the white stuff. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:27:32 -0700 From: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: e46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Why do you need AWD? 4 snow tires with RWD are better than all season > tires and AWD. > > Gary Derian > As a long-time "I don't need awd as long as I have good snow tires" guy, I would answer Gary's question (and disagree with his assertion) with two words: unplowed snow. Otherwise I couldn't agree more. Tom K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 12:53:55 -0500 From: "Batt, Jeff \(GE Healthcare\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Because I hate to shovel! :) Just kidding...althought I do hate to shovel...I guess I just like the peace of mind of AWD. I actually run snow tires on my 4WD Jeep (in the winter) and would do the same if I ever purchase a BMW ___xi. I guess I have trouble believing that most RWD cars could match AWD cars (assuming similar tires) on hills, snow covered parking lots, etc. Maybe it's just my poor driving technique?...but with kids in the car, the snow flying and everyone sliding around you, I like having AWD. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Kosmalski Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [UUC] e46 advice > Why do you need AWD? 4 snow tires with RWD are better than all season > tires and AWD. > > Gary Derian > As a long-time "I don't need awd as long as I have good snow tires" guy, I would answer Gary's question (and disagree with his assertion) with two words: unplowed snow. Otherwise I couldn't agree more. Tom K. Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] ________________________________________________________________________ __ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 18:25:46 +0000 From: "Gilbert Hoffman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AWD...was e46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jeff wrote: >I guess I >have trouble believing that most RWD cars could match AWD cars (assuming >similar tires) on hills, snow covered parking lots, etc. Maybe it's >just my poor driving technique?...but with kids in the car, the snow >flying and everyone sliding around you, I like having AWD. I think it is meant to be said that a RWD car with snows performs better than an AWD with all seasons. Having said that, Popular Mechanics had a really nice article a few years ago where they took four cars: Audi A6 FWD, A6 quattro, MB E320, MB E320 4matic and ran them through some tests at some tire manufacturer's proving grounds in Northern Michigan in the dead of winter. What the tests proved was that all but the steepest grade the RWD MB E320 was the best performer on snow/ice with snow tires. The tests were slalom, acceleration, stopping, and hill climb. IIRC only the AWD cars with snows could get up the steepest grade they had set. (Don't recall how steep that was.) One of the issue that makes me feel safer and why I wouldn't opt for an AWD BMW (other than the fact that it makes it handle significantly different...well at least the E46,) is that it adds weight, and weight decreases braking/handling performance. And IMO braking performance is the *most* important safety feature when things get bad. My 0.02 Sorry for the rant. Gilbert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:33:18 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: AWD...was e46 advice Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This stuff was just debated over on the E39 list. Over there: Don wrote: >I have snows on the Touring - which formerly were on the sedan.. and it >works just fine in the snow. The touring is even better than the sedan >was. I have played with it in some large deserted snow covered parking >lots - and with ASC/DSC/Alphabet soup kicking in and controlling things >- it takes a really boneheaded move to get it out of shape. >But then I grew up driving RWD cars without snows or chains or anything else that would help much in bad weather (did usually have the traditional bag'o'sand in the trunk. >I think 4WD is vastly over-rated (and yes - I've owned them).. They >simply provide the ability to get yourself into trouble at higher >speeds. Nothing in a 4WD overcomes basic laws of physics when it comes >to stopping.. -------------- [I responded] I agree completely with Don. I put some cheap Winterforce snow tires (made by BFG, I think, and only $52 from the Tire Rack!) on both the E39 528iT and the E38 740iL, and both work AWESOMELY well in the snow. In fact, both work better than a couple of SAAB 900s I've had (with snow tires too). As Don points out, AWD only helps when one is applying power; braking and turning still depends mostly on tire selection, electronic aids if you've got them, and most of all, the nut behind the wheel. I live in the snowbelt of Boston (west of Rt. 128, east of the Worcester hills), so I get the same amount of snow as Tim H., and I had ZERO problems this year. Climbing my icy driveway, traversing the unplowed street, bombing down highways and cruising up to ski country - the TC/ASC would light up periodically, but only when I was semi-intentionally triggering it with my right foot. The only time in years I've gotten stuck with a BMW (the 740) was when I parked it on a perfectly flat sheet of black ice. I shoved a traction ramp under on rear wheel, backed right out, and was on my way. [I also wrote privately] AWD is a marketing myth. Bah, humbug. Subaru and Audi needed a way to distinguish themselves, and catch up against the leaders in their segment (Toyota/Honda and BMW/MB, respectively). And both have done a great job of doing exactly that. AWD is/was also a great way to expand out from their traditional FRONT wheel drive platforms - much cheaper than developing a nice RWD platform (see also Jaguar X-type using FWD Mondeo chassis, or Acura RL, using FWD Honda chassis). Advantages of AWD? Better traction and stability when accelerating, noticeable only when (a) in snow/ice, and (b) on the racetrack. Disadvantages? Additional weight, complexity, expense, and often steering-feel. Now, ask youself, do the advantages outweigh the costs? Keep in mind that a RWD vehicle with snow tires will CRUSH an AWD car running all-season tires, all other things being equal. Snow tires also cheap (considering that you can buy a set of spare wheels and snow tires for under a grand, and that you extend the life of your much more expensive summer tires, and can resell the wheels separately later). And even LARRY can change over to snow tires in his driveway! Just my $.02! Vty, --Dennis '00 528iT '95 740iL Seven foot tall snow bank, Boston ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:33:58 -0700 From: Tom Kosmalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Big Motor Cert Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I heard that BMW was actually developing that V10/1 Series concept, but that the Board of Directors nixed it when Bangle's first design mock-up bore too much resemblance to a cartoonized shifter kart! Tongue firmly in cheek, Tom K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 12:44:53 -0500 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Cc: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: e46 advice - and why isn't there a 330xiT? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Blame this response on Gary's comments (just kidding). And Joe's comment was right on: "Q - how fast can you go with AWD in the snow? A - As fast as the soccer mom in the minivan ahead of you can go" I'm going to butt in on this, given some of the comments re: AWD v. RWD v. FWD and horsepower. None of what I say is meant to argue or anger or criticize any individual. I don't have an E46 and won't be able to afford one for many years. We do own and thoroughly enjoy a '93 525iT and an '87 325iS. Not unlike in the 70's, there's an uncontrolled horsepower war going on and, I'll venture to say, fueled largely by the US market. Odd, given the stringent speed limits we have. And all the ads, at least in Wisconsin, encouraging AWD vehicles to deal with tough midwestern winters make me wonder. While some areas are hit, the truth is that, except for a few rural areas, most snow is cleared up almost within hours so that all those people w/bald tires and no driving skills can continue on in their ignorance. And again, Joe hit the nail on the head on this one. And yet, in spite of IMO no real need for 400HP and AWD to go to the store on usually dry roads, these are the things many of the people w/buying power are demanding. So I can't blame the manufacturers for not giving us a nice, basic BMW w/an economical engine or a sporty diesel engine if the market isn't there. Even the writers in the Roundel are IMO guilty of badmouthing anything that can't imitate a super car. Not one of them is willing to say BMW has an excellent 4 cylinder that will meet the needs and demands of many potential buyers or that the dealers and manufacturer should do a better job of promoting a 4. Instead they write about the 4 not being a 6 or 8...duh! How much of a dog can an AWD 325iTa really be? It won't beat ricer boy across the intersection? It won't get up to 80mph to merge into traffic? I once drove a 325iTa (not AWD) in a charitable event w/a number of other BMWs. Now, this car was not my choice; I was stuck w/it. It was literally the runt of the pack. None the less, it did more than the speed limit very easily. In fact, I was astounded at how hard it was still pulling at 110mph (and I have proof of this). :-( A lot of people, certainly not exclusive to this list, feel they need a pickup truck b/c they're remodeling the house and need something to carry things home, or whatever. Hmmm. If it doesn't fit inside my wife's 525iT, then I pull a trailer behind the 325, which trailer has been pulled behind said car at over 80mph. By no means is this meant to be bragging, but Mensch! how fast does one need to come home from the hardward store? I ALMOST wouldn't mind seeing gasoline taxed so high here (in the USA) that people would get serious about driving a sensible vehicle (none of this hybrid battery trash) and manufacturers would be forced to develop fuel efficient engines b/c of buyer demand. I'll get off the soapbox now and try to get back to work. And obviously, YMMV. Clarence West Bend, WI Gary Derian wrote: > Why do you need AWD? 4 snow tires with RWD are better than all season > tires and AWD. There isn't much at Home Depot that weighs more than 2 > rear seat passengers. > ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
