The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 273 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:50:53 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil, I only partly agree that iDrive was not necessary. It was not necessary as long as cars continued to have the same controls and functionality that they've had for the last 20+ years. The "problem" is that BMW feels that their cars need to offer drivers more gizmos and features so that they're "better" than the competition. There is only so much real estate on the dash, so they need to make fewer controls do more things. But like you said, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. There was a time when BMWs were a model of ergonomic efficiency, so that the driver's attention could remain on the road. The added complication of the controls, iDrive or otherwise, means that the driver's attention is elsewhere, which is not safe. Or maybe they just figure that if they surround the cabin's occupants with every imaginable airbag, it is OK for them to have a few more accidents? Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:57:45 -0400 >From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <snip> >The Active Steering option, which strikes me as yet >another BMW solution to a problem nobody was having - iDrive anyone? - does >have an electronic control unit. > >BTW, I see nothing wrong with electronic assist. It's not what you do, it's >how you do it. <snip> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I am somewhat at a loss to understand what all the additional features are that have been added to cars in the last 5 or so years that requires so many inputs. Yes, navigation has added additional features, but I don't see why this would overburden the available real estate. What are all the additional gizmos that need inputs? -Paul 95 M3 (no gizmos to speak of) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Neil, I only partly agree that iDrive was not > necessary. It was not > necessary as long as cars continued to have the same > controls and > functionality that they've had for the last 20+ > years. The "problem" is > that BMW feels that their cars need to offer drivers > more gizmos and > features so that they're "better" than the > competition. There is only so > much real estate on the dash, so they need to make > fewer controls do more > things. But like you said, it's not what you do, > it's how you do it. > There was a time when BMWs were a model of ergonomic > efficiency, so that > the driver's attention could remain on the road. > The added complication of > the controls, iDrive or otherwise, means that the > driver's attention is > elsewhere, which is not safe. Or maybe they just > figure that if they > surround the cabin's occupants with every imaginable > airbag, it is OK for > them to have a few more accidents? > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > > >Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:57:45 -0400 > >From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings > >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > <snip> > > >The Active Steering option, which strikes me as yet > >another BMW solution to a problem nobody was having > - iDrive anyone? - > does > >have an electronic control unit. > > > >BTW, I see nothing wrong with electronic assist. > It's not what you do, > it's > >how you do it. > <snip> > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:01:08 -0400 From: "johngrills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gizmos schmizmos....I am still at a loss as to why analog HVAC controls were deemed 'inadequate'. Does anyone think those digital control loops are some kind of improvement? or some how more 'accurate'. Ergonomics? obviously a lost art. It's dangerous to change the temperature settings while under way. Pls don't use the: wife in the driver's seat wants it cooler rationale. That's what those vents were for. And speaking of venting, don't even get me started on that interior 'Buick Console' styling theme for the dash. I may be pushing fiddy, but I like to think I still have an eye for elegant design. Does anyone out there actually LIKE this theme? Seems to me it takes away what little available instrumentation real estate that was left. There, now I feel better. Cheers! John Grills 98 M3/4 91 318is 88 M3 87 iC ....all with proper instrumented consoles.....and when that HVAC unit on the e36 goes south, we search for 1995 parts with twisty knobs and such. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:12:37 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul wrote: >I am somewhat at a loss to understand what all the additional features are that have been added to cars in the last 5 or so years that requires so many inputs. Yes, navigation has added additional features, but I don't see why this would overburden the available real estate. >What are all the additional gizmos that need inputs? ============================== Well, I think your question hangs on the verb, "need". You (and I) clearly prefer a baseline of, say, the E36, or maybe even the E28, in terms of being the optimal level comfort and safety features, especially those that allow the user to control them. Who needs anything beyond that, right? Well, let's see. Climate control: yeah, we were fine with knobs for fan speeds, placement and temp. But with automatic climate control, we also got dual (or three or four) zone temp control, multiple placements (passenger wants it blowing in his face, you want it on your feet). Defrost mode? Sure. Recirc? Yup. A/C compressor on? Ok. Don't forget rear defog. Oh, and heat up the exterior mirrors. Heated seats on? If so, to low, medium or high? And another set of controls for the REAR seats too. Or the third row, if you're going that far. Power seats. Nice, no? 11-way. 13-way? Power headrests, lumbar, thigh extensions. MEMORY for different drivers (I love this feature). Adjusts outside mirrors too (heck, on some MBs, it adjusts the inside mirror as well). Don't forget to adjust the tilt/telescope of the wheel too. And move the shoulder belt attachment point up and down. Wait - cooling fans in the seat too? Can't forget that. Phone controls? Can't forget those. Duplicates on the steering wheel, as well as cruise control controls (redundant?) - oh, hey, ACTIVE cruise control requires, well, even more controls. Back up warning system? Another button or two. Heck, warn about stuff up fron too! SMG settings, steptronic modes, sport modes, traction control/ASR modes, all require input. Personalize for the driver? That's nice. Oh, and massive stereo options. Wanna listen to AM/FM/XM/Sirius? Digital AM/FM? Play CDs, tapes, MP3s? A 6-disc changer, or built in HD? iPod interface? Bluetooth settings? Do you want the car to sound like a symphony hall, jazz club, stadium, or your living room? Want more bass out of the 7 speakers in front or 6 speakers in back? Play DVDs? Watch live TV? Check your email? Onstar? Have your car automatically message you when it needs service? Misc stuff too. Rain sensing wipers? Trip computers - how to display, how to program? Outside temperature and compass readings? Power tailgate? Sunroof - open, close, vent? Daytime running lights, on or off? Alarm system settings? How do you want your dash display lit? How cool do you want the drink in the glovebox? ========= Yeah, I'm missing some stuff. But given all of these "features", there is definitely a shortage of space to "input" them all. And the curmudgeons among us can whine about how the optimal level of creature comfort was reached years ago. I'm one of them, quite happy with the E38/E39, but there are those who say that the E28 or E32 or E34 was fine. And those who still think the 2002 was the pinnacle of all that anyone could possibly need. Reality is that the market is producing all of these luxury items because consumers WANT them. They may want them because they're small minded sheep, but they do WANT THEM. And, hey, let's not be hypocritical too. We're continuing to buy these things, whereas a base Honda Accord is probably faster than an E28, gets better mileage, carries more stuff, is way more reliable, a lot safer, and has as more luxury, but we're not talking about Accords, are we? :-) Vty, --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:26:29 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "P Kroon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Back in my day, we put bags of ice in our pants on hot days, and we liked it that way. Gary Derian >I am somewhat at a loss to understand what all the > additional features are that have been added to cars > in the last 5 or so years that requires so many > inputs. Yes, navigation has added additional > features, but I don't see why this would overburden > the available real estate. > > What are all the additional gizmos that need inputs? > > -Paul > 95 M3 > (no gizmos to speak of) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:49:07 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>, "'P Kroon'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gary, were you driving, or were you the helper who had to walk 50 feet in front of the car, holding the red flag, so as to give fair warning to horses that a horseless carriage was behind you? Vty, --Dennis -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Derian Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:26 PM To: P Kroon; [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Back in my day, we put bags of ice in our pants on hot days, and we liked it that way. Gary Derian >I am somewhat at a loss to understand what all the additional features >are that have been added to cars in the last 5 or so years that >requires so many inputs. Yes, navigation has added additional >features, but I don't see why this would overburden the available real >estate. > > What are all the additional gizmos that need inputs? > > -Paul > 95 M3 > (no gizmos to speak of) Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:11:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kinky. -tammer <--hears some folks still do it that way --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Back in my day, we put bags of ice in our pants on hot > days, and we liked it > that way. > Gary Derian __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:04:09 -0400 From: "Beaudette, Roland SIKORSKY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC ([email protected])" <[email protected]> Subject: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've scoped out the prices to replace my road salt/sand blasted lenses. It's roughly $180 per side. OUCH. Since I missed a nice EBay deal (l/r pair at $20), I am looking to do something else a bit cheaper. Has anyone bought the lens replacements on EBay? It's certainly cheap and I'll have to exercise some care for the repair. But it seems doable. Worse comes to worse I'm out the cash. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=3200319 65475&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT Or the next step up is to search the UUC archives for how to use Hella's? inside the existing lamp housing. Cheers, Roland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:32:52 -0700 From: Mark Gold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Beaudette, Roland SIKORSKY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "UUC ([email protected])" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Roland, While I haven't had to repair my ellipsoid headlights, the used fog lights I picked up for my '91 cabrio were badly sandblasted. I contemplated replacing the lenses but figured I should experiment first to come up with an alternative. I tried buffing out the glass to no avail, so here's what I ended up doing. I had a can of clear Duplicolor High Performance Wheel Coating left over from when I refinished my basketweaves. I spayed several light coats on the lenses and believe it or not, they cleaned up quite nicely. Basically, the clear paint filled in the tiny craters in the glass. I finished the lights off with a protective layer of Lamin-X. That was a couple of years ago and the fog lights still look great. Here's a link to before and after pics... Before: http://homepage.mac.com/mgold/.Pictures/fog3.jpg After: http://homepage.mac.com/mgold/.Pictures/fog4.jpg Good luck! Sincerely, Mark Gold Sacramento Valley Chapter BMWCCA On Sep 28, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Beaudette, Roland SIKORSKY wrote: > I've scoped out the prices to replace my road salt/sand blasted > lenses. > It's roughly $180 per side. OUCH. Since I missed a nice EBay deal > (l/r > pair at $20), I am looking to do something else a bit cheaper. > > Has anyone bought the lens replacements on EBay? It's certainly > cheap and > I'll have to exercise some care for the repair. But it seems > doable. Worse > comes to worse I'm out the cash. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&ih=011&item=3200319 > 65475&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT > > Or the next step up is to search the UUC archives for how to use > Hella's? > inside the existing lamp housing. > > Cheers, > > Roland > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/ > [email protected] > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the > BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:56:55 -0400 From: "johngrills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Beaudette, Roland SIKORSKY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Roland, These appear to be plastic lenses. IMHO they are junk. Get a nice set of Hella-E replacements. They only cost $50-60 per light. Cibie CSRs are the gold standard at $110 per side. Painting glass may look nicer, but the optical quality must ...um, suffer a bit? We use lights to see, so again, IMHO, optical quality is pretty important in a lamp....if you go for that sort of thing. Cheers! John Grills NCC BMWCCA -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Beaudette, Roland SIKORSKY Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:04 PM To: UUC ([email protected]) Subject: [UUC] Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) I've scoped out the prices to replace my road salt/sand blasted lenses. It's roughly $180 per side. OUCH. Since I missed a nice EBay deal (l/r pair at $20), I am looking to do something else a bit cheaper. Has anyone bought the lens replacements on EBay? It's certainly cheap and I'll have to exercise some care for the repair. But it seems doable. Worse comes to worse I'm out the cash. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&item=3200319 65475&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT Or the next step up is to search the UUC archives for how to use Hella's? inside the existing lamp housing. Cheers, Roland Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:52:23 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Repairing ellipsoid h'lights (E34 525iA) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Except only factory lights fit in an E34, unless you make something yourself. Gary Derian > Roland, > > These appear to be plastic lenses. IMHO they are junk. Get a nice set of > Hella-E replacements. They only cost $50-60 per light. Cibie CSRs are the > gold standard at $110 per side. > > Painting glass may look nicer, but the optical quality must ...um, suffer > a > bit? We use lights to see, so again, IMHO, optical quality is pretty > important in a lamp....if you go for that sort of thing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:12:41 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'P Kroon'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "BMW List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah, but once you stick that big widescreen Nav system in the middle, where do you stack everything else without making the cockpit look like a 747? And, from an engineer's POV, if everything is controlled by a central computer, with a CAN system, since you've got the widescreen for the nav anyway, it does make a certain elegant sense to put other controls/options into that screen - like setting stuff up on your desktop. Too bad they made it the ONLY way to change often-needed-settings, like temps and radio stations and stuff. Ideally, you'd make all of the options available through the screen, AND you keep buttons/switches for stuff that you access regularly. Which is what Jaguar does well, Audi does less well, MB rather badly, and iDrive suckage. :-) Vty, --Dennis -----Original Message----- From: P Kroon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [UUC] e90 330i impressions & misc. ramblings Dennis, I understand that there are lots of possible options, but how many of these options are new within the last 5 or so years besides, argueably, navigation? Most (not all of them) of the options you described below have been available for a long, long time and where somehow "fit" into the space within the car without the need for an i-Drive equivalent. -Paul --- Dennis Liu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul wrote: > > >I am somewhat at a loss to understand what all the > additional features are > that have been added to cars in the last 5 or so years that requires > so many inputs. Yes, navigation has added additional features, but I > don't see why this would overburden the available real estate. > > >What are all the additional gizmos that need > inputs? > > ============================== > > Well, I think your question hangs on the verb, "need". You (and I) > clearly prefer a baseline of, say, the E36, or maybe even the E28, in > terms of being the optimal level comfort and safety features, > especially those that allow the user to control them. Who needs > anything beyond that, right? > > Well, let's see. > > Climate control: yeah, we were fine with knobs for fan speeds, > placement and temp. But with automatic climate control, we also got > dual (or three or > four) zone temp control, multiple placements (passenger wants it > blowing in his face, you want it on your feet). Defrost mode? > Sure. Recirc? Yup. > A/C compressor on? Ok. Don't forget rear defog. > Oh, and heat up the > exterior mirrors. Heated seats on? If so, to low, medium or high? > And another set of controls for the REAR seats too. Or the third row, > if you're going that far. > > Power seats. Nice, no? 11-way. 13-way? Power headrests, lumbar, > thigh extensions. MEMORY for different drivers (I love this feature). > Adjusts outside mirrors too (heck, on some MBs, it adjusts the inside > mirror as well). Don't forget to adjust the tilt/telescope of the > wheel too. And move the shoulder belt attachment point up and down. > Wait - cooling fans in > the seat too? Can't forget that. > > Phone controls? Can't forget those. Duplicates on the steering > wheel, as well as cruise control controls (redundant?) - oh, hey, > ACTIVE cruise control requires, well, even more controls. Back up > warning system? > Another button or two. Heck, warn about stuff up fron too! > > SMG settings, steptronic modes, sport modes, traction control/ASR > modes, all require input. Personalize for the driver? That's nice. > > Oh, and massive stereo options. Wanna listen to AM/FM/XM/Sirius? > Digital AM/FM? Play CDs, tapes, MP3s? A 6-disc changer, or built in > HD? iPod interface? Bluetooth settings? Do you want the car to > sound like a symphony hall, jazz club, stadium, or your living room? > Want more bass out of the 7 speakers in front or 6 speakers in back? > Play DVDs? Watch live > TV? Check your email? > > Onstar? Have your car automatically message you when it needs > service? > > Misc stuff too. Rain sensing wipers? Trip computers - how to > display, how to program? Outside temperature and compass readings? > Power tailgate? > Sunroof - open, close, vent? Daytime running lights, on or off? > Alarm system settings? How do you want your dash display lit? How > cool do you want the drink in the glovebox? > > ========= > > Yeah, I'm missing some stuff. But given all of these "features", > there is definitely a shortage of space to "input" them all. > > And the curmudgeons among us can whine about how the optimal level of > creature comfort was reached years ago. I'm one of them, quite happy > with the E38/E39, but there are those who say that the > E28 or E32 or E34 was > fine. And those who still think the 2002 was the pinnacle of all that > anyone could possibly need. > > Reality is that the market is producing all of these luxury items > because consumers WANT them. They may want them because they're small > minded sheep, but they do WANT THEM. > > And, hey, let's not be hypocritical too. We're continuing to buy > these things, whereas a base Honda Accord is probably faster than an > E28, gets better mileage, carries more stuff, is way more reliable, a > lot safer, and has as more luxury, but we're not talking about > Accords, are we? :-) > > Vty, > > --Dennis > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW > CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(12 messages) **********
