The BMW UUC Digest Volume 4 : Issue 12 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change- Any Auto fluid for that matter! Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Re: <E36> rear bearings Re: <E36> LR wheel bearing revisited BMW Factory Warranty Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change- Any Auto fluid for that
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:39:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Wife's X5 is at 70K, and is probably due for a (partial) tranny fluid change. Can I mix something like Redline D4 ATF with the factory stuff, or do I need real BMW juice? And how much can I expect to get out (drain plug only)? I haven't serviced an auto tranny in close to 30 years... but IIRC, the GM boxes I was once familiar with included a filter that could be replaced by dropping the pan. Same here? And is it worth the trouble? Interesting side note... when I was at Rennen yesterday, dude came in complainig his (GM) tranny had begun to slip. Steve and I talked about this a bit once the guy left... and he initially gave me the usual boloney about these being lifetime no-maintenance units, bla bla bla. I looked at him funny and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it got all gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like 140K) would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. Huh? Is that right? - Kevin Jay '96 328is, red/tan, 104K, usual H&R/Bilstein setup, a few M3 parts too '02 X5 3.0, white/tan, 70K, bone stock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:24:06 -0500 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think that is the same transmission as in my E36 328i. I did the drop the pan, change filters, install pan and fill routine and used about 7 liters of fluid. You have to fill it from underneath while the engine is running. I have seen a similar transmission (Cadillac Opel car) with a see through pan at an auto show. When that torque converter is spinning, the interior of that pan looks like a dishwasher. There is no stirring up of silt when doing a filter change. Anytime is better that never IMHO. Ed Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: > Wife's X5 is at 70K, and is probably due for a (partial) tranny fluid change. > > Can I mix something like Redline D4 ATF with the factory stuff, or do I need > real BMW juice? And how much can I expect to get out (drain plug only)? > > I haven't serviced an auto tranny in close to 30 years... but IIRC, the GM > boxes I was once familiar with included a filter that could be replaced by > dropping the pan. Same here? And is it worth the trouble? > > Interesting side note... when I was at Rennen yesterday, dude came in > complainig his (GM) tranny had begun to slip. Steve and I talked about this a > bit once the guy left... and he initially gave me the usual boloney about > these being lifetime no-maintenance units, bla bla bla. I looked at him funny > and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it got all > gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like 140K) > would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. > > Huh? Is that right? > > - Kevin Jay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:20:43 -0500 From: "Melton, Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I agree with the mechanic that said leave it alone. I have seen too many GM auto transmissions that failed when high-mileage unchanged fluid gets changed with nice new fluid. What happens is the older fluid in the transmission has lost much (most) of it's detergent level and the new fluid (even if same as original factory fill) has it's normal high detergent levels. These high levels of detergent will cause the built up varnish (sludge, crud, pick your favorite name) to become loosened and start it to flowing thru the system. Pretty soon the small ports, valves and orfices get clogged and you have a non-functional transmission. So - the general consensus in GM land is either to change the fluid at 30-45K intervals starting when new or to NEVER change it. -Tom 82 Collector Edition Vette (auto - changed regularly) 96 Tahoe (auto - changed regularly) 86 Vette (was auto now 6 speed) 95 M3 (5 speed) 97 M3 IP racecar (5 speed) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed MacVaugh <snip> There is no stirring up of silt when doing a filter change. Anytime is better that never IMHO. Ed Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: <snip> > I looked at him funny > and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it got all > gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like 140K) > would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. > > Huh? Is that right? > > - Kevin Jay This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:13:57 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Saturday 12 January 2008 8:20:43 pm Melton, Tom wrote: > I agree with the mechanic that said leave it alone. I have seen too many > GM auto transmissions that failed when high-mileage unchanged fluid gets > changed with nice new fluid. What happens is the older fluid in the > transmission has lost much (most) of it's detergent level and the new fluid > (even if same as original factory fill) has it's normal high detergent > levels. These high levels of detergent will cause the built up varnish > (sludge, crud, pick your favorite name) to become loosened and start it to > flowing thru the system. Pretty soon the small ports, valves and orfices > get clogged and you have a non-functional transmission. > > So - the general consensus in GM land is either to change the fluid at > 30-45K intervals starting when new or to NEVER change it. I hear that argument all the time since I mess around with Land Rovers (Disco ones) and this is the standard argument for not changing the ATF in them once they have gone too long without a change (and none of them get changed after 60K). I am in the camp that says 'change it'..and I have changed all of my high mile Rovers that were abused and have never had a problem. Why? Because I don't wait until it slips under load to decide and change it...that is why many people equate changing high-mile ATF with failure: They waited to change it until it slipped on them and changed the fluid in a 'oh sh**' reaction and by then the transmission has already been damaged to the point of failure, its just a matter of when. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 23:24:02 -0600 From: "Jon Siccardi - Treehouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change- Any Auto fluid for that matter! Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah, This USED to be an opinion many of us had years ago, but at this point,I think it's pretty much a fact. The last time I changed auto trans fluid on a car without records was in 1989. I killed 3 cars in one week at a shop in PA. I was the oil change/tire boy. hahahaha. I bought a Ford Expedition on Sept 21, 2001. It had 100k on it and I got a super deal. No records of trans fluid change. So.... I didn't touch it. We towed my 11,000lb 28' enclosed trailer over 20k miles and 77k of driving around with smaller trailers and groceries. It's got 197k on it and I swear to you it shifts perfectly. It's actually a miracle. I've probably just jinxed the 5h1T out of it, but everyday it lasts is just another miracle here in Nashville, TN. Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi - DM #053 TreehouseRacing.com M50conversion.com 615.333.9118 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melton, Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] <E53> GM tranny fluid change >I agree with the mechanic that said leave it alone. I have seen too many >GM auto transmissions that failed when high-mileage unchanged fluid gets >changed with nice new fluid. What happens is the older fluid in the >transmission has lost much (most) of it's detergent level and the new fluid >(even if same as original factory fill) has it's normal high detergent >levels. These high levels of detergent will cause the built up varnish >(sludge, crud, pick your favorite name) to become loosened and start it to >flowing thru the system. Pretty soon the small ports, valves and orfices >get clogged and you have a non-functional transmission. > > So - the general consensus in GM land is either to change the fluid at > 30-45K intervals starting when new or to NEVER change it. > > -Tom > 82 Collector Edition Vette (auto - changed regularly) > 96 Tahoe (auto - changed regularly) > 86 Vette (was auto now 6 speed) > 95 M3 (5 speed) > 97 M3 IP racecar (5 speed) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed MacVaugh > > <snip> > > There is no stirring up of silt when doing a filter change. Anytime is > better that never IMHO. > > Ed > > Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: > > <snip> > >> I looked at him funny >> and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it got >> all >> gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like >> 140K) >> would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. >> >> Huh? Is that right? >> >> - Kevin Jay > > This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of > the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged > information. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution > or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly > prohibited. > > If you have received this message in error, please contact > the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the > original message (including attachments). > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 07:29:22 -0500 From: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Melton, Tom'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I inherited a 96 Chevy Blazer from my girlfriend and the last time I was at the shop they suggested I change the tranny fluid (vehicle has 165,000 on the OD). Transmission works without a hitch, so maybe I will take that off my project list. Might just be asking for trouble. Matt Bader 98 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Melton, Tom Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 11:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] <E53> GM tranny fluid change I agree with the mechanic that said leave it alone. I have seen too many GM auto transmissions that failed when high-mileage unchanged fluid gets changed with nice new fluid. What happens is the older fluid in the transmission has lost much (most) of it's detergent level and the new fluid (even if same as original factory fill) has it's normal high detergent levels. These high levels of detergent will cause the built up varnish (sludge, crud, pick your favorite name) to become loosened and start it to flowing thru the system. Pretty soon the small ports, valves and orfices get clogged and you have a non-functional transmission. So - the general consensus in GM land is either to change the fluid at 30-45K intervals starting when new or to NEVER change it. -Tom 82 Collector Edition Vette (auto - changed regularly) 96 Tahoe (auto - changed regularly) 86 Vette (was auto now 6 speed) 95 M3 (5 speed) 97 M3 IP racecar (5 speed) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed MacVaugh <snip> There is no stirring up of silt when doing a filter change. Anytime is better that never IMHO. Ed Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: <snip> > I looked at him funny > and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it got all > gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like 140K) > would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. > > Huh? Is that right? > > - Kevin Jay This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments). Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:53:28 -0600 From: Peter Freedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> rear bearings Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I remembered reading this a while back, and my '97 M3 has picked up what's best described as a low shudder or vibration on hard acceleration. Doesn't seem to be coming from either side in particular or make any difference if turning or not. The car has got around 105K on it, usual engine upgrades and tranny mounts, UUC sway bars, but otherwise no suspension or other upgrades. I think the differential, maybe other parts in the rear end were replaced under warranty by the previous owner. The sound is not there or is mild on some days, pretty noticeable on others - maybe has to do with how long/hard I've been running it any particular day? I did replace the tranny and differential fluids maybe two months ago with Red Line products. It was like mining for gold in the old fluids. (Not a hard DIY job if anyone is wondering, but you do need a shorty allen socket for one of the differential plugs (I cut one down on a grinder, or you can make your own), and a fluid pump makes the job a lot easier). So I'm curious if anyone else has seen this to help me narrow down where to look, and maybe what to look for in particular to see if the part is actually bad? Or not to worry until it gets more definitive? Thanks for any advice. Pete '97 M3 Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: > I'm not sure how urgent this is myself. I've been hearing this for the last > few hundred miles (it's not terribly loud, but I can hear it with the windows > down if I'm driving along side a curb). Sort of a light scraping with a tick > here and there (I'd been thinking CV, maybe even something loose in the > parking brake). > > But feeling and hearing this thing scrape and grind while turning it with my > hand (caliper and rotor off the car) sure leaves me uneasy. So tomorrow I'm > taking the car... *GASP*... to somebody I don't know (I don't have the > time/tools to R&R wheel bearings). An independant that just looks "right" > from the street. MAKES ME MENTAL IN THE HEAD, I *hate* having other people > work on my car. I need to establish a relationship with somebody, though.... > we're getting on in years here, and I'm bound to need help again. > > Where's Jenny when I need her :( > > Isn't 104Kmiles a bit soon for a wheel bearing? > > - k > > --- original message --- > > Subject: Re: <E36> rear bearings > > I'm not saying it is safe or wise, but I had a bad rear wheel bearing on my > '90 325i and I drove on it for a couple thousand miles before I figured out it > was bad. (A front bearing went bad at the same time and I couldn't tell where > the noise was coming from. Once I replaced the front bearing, it became > obvious that the rear bearing was also bad.) So take that only as a point of > reference, not an endorsement that you can drive on the bad bearing for any > length of time. > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:28:33 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> LR wheel bearing revisited Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Saturday 12 January 2008 10:33:14 am Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: > I'm told it took two hours of heating & hammering before > they gave up and took the whole assembly to their press... which I > understand bent significantly before... BAM!... she released. HA! Its amazing what can be done when the proper tools are used ;-) When the small pullers fail you just need to pull out the big gun. Dave T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 10:44:57 -0500 From: "Steve & Barb Conner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: BMW Factory Warranty Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Can someone recap for me what the BMW factory warranty is for the past several years? I took a closer look at one of the current model 5's yesterday and they still have not found anyone who can design a cup holder that is not a complete joke. Steve Conner p.s. I still have a cherry 99 540iA for sale that I will readily negotiate on. Look at this ad in Cars.com. Thanks. http://tinyurl.com/2zcd62 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:18:25 -0500 From: KMS - Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E53> GM tranny fluid change- Any Auto fluid for that Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 1989 was a long time ago, and many things have changed, but not that.... I'm with John. I've seen my fair share of dead transmissions after a high interval change, with no adverse driving issues prior to the change. The most expensive of those being a 5HP30. KMS will not change auto trans fluid on ANY vehicle unless it has documentation of no more than 80K since the last change. I'm sure there are plenty of anecdotes from people who have been lucky. "got it changed at 130K miles, no issue", but the ratio of those is small in the real world. Brett Anderson KMS Jon Siccardi - Treehouse wrote: > Yeah, This USED to be an opinion many of us had years ago, but at this > point,I think it's pretty much a fact. The last time I changed auto > trans fluid on a car without records was in 1989. I killed 3 cars in one > week at a shop in PA. I was the oil change/tire boy. hahahaha. > > I bought a Ford Expedition on Sept 21, 2001. It had 100k on it and I got > a super deal. No records of trans fluid change. So.... I didn't touch > it. We towed my 11,000lb 28' enclosed trailer over 20k miles and 77k of > driving around with smaller trailers and groceries. It's got 197k on it > and I swear to you it shifts perfectly. It's actually a miracle. I've > probably just jinxed the 5h1T out of it, but everyday it lasts is just > another miracle here in Nashville, TN. > > Jon > ______________________________________________ > > Jon Siccardi - DM #053 > TreehouseRacing.com > M50conversion.com > 615.333.9118 > ______________________________________________ > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melton, Tom" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [UUC] <E53> GM tranny fluid change > > >> I agree with the mechanic that said leave it alone. I have seen too >> many GM auto transmissions that failed when high-mileage unchanged >> fluid gets changed with nice new fluid. What happens is the older >> fluid in the transmission has lost much (most) of it's detergent level >> and the new fluid (even if same as original factory fill) has it's >> normal high detergent levels. These high levels of detergent will >> cause the built up varnish (sludge, crud, pick your favorite name) to >> become loosened and start it to flowing thru the system. Pretty soon >> the small ports, valves and orfices get clogged and you have a >> non-functional transmission. >> >> So - the general consensus in GM land is either to change the fluid at >> 30-45K intervals starting when new or to NEVER change it. >> >> -Tom >> 82 Collector Edition Vette (auto - changed regularly) >> 96 Tahoe (auto - changed regularly) >> 86 Vette (was auto now 6 speed) >> 95 M3 (5 speed) >> 97 M3 IP racecar (5 speed) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed MacVaugh >> >> <snip> >> >> There is no stirring up of silt when doing a filter change. Anytime is >> better that never IMHO. >> >> Ed >> >> Kevin Jay (Mr.Fabulous) wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >>> I looked at him funny >>> and said maybe the guy should've done a fluid change on his before it >>> got all >>> gummed-up, and Steve's response was that doing it now (something like >>> 140K) >>> would just stir up dirt and do more harm than good. >>> >>> Huh? Is that right? >>> >>> - Kevin Jay >> >> This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of >> the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged >> information. If the reader of this message is not the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution >> or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly >> prohibited. >> >> If you have received this message in error, please contact >> the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the >> original message (including attachments). >> >> Search the >> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. >> >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > -- Brett Anderson KMS - Koala Motorsport LLC (440) 564 7574 www.koalamotorsport.com www.bmwdiffs.com 9988 Kinsman Rd Novelty OH 44072 (Cleveland Area) ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(10 messages) **********
