The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 596 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Diesels Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters RANT Emissions test... Good books on suspension dial-in? Re: Good books on suspension dial-in?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:53:42 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Diesels Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> No matter what the torque or power curve is, for the best performance, the engine has to be in its sweet spot. My M5 is very peaky and seems slow when lugged around at 1500 rpm, but is quite fast and responsive in the 4000 to 7000 rpm zone. Keeping the engine in its sweet range is easier with a high torque engine, but overall, when it comes to acceleration and speed, its the power that counts, not the torque. Gary Derian > Interesting. I am wondering what the characteristics are of a car with > such > high torque compared to horsepower. It accelerates like mad but power > drops > off markedly at higher engine speeds? My car is just the opposite, high > hp, > but comparatively low torque. So, he kills me in the quarter mile and I > take the half mile ribbon? Maybe not? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:53:33 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Does anyone have any experience with aftermarket Hi-flow catalytic converters? I am trying to figure out a way to open up my exhaust while still keeping things OBDII compliant. Alternatively, I'd like a way for me to have a set-up that would allow me to swap out the CATS for track days with a mid-pipe of some sort. But, it is not clear to me how I deal with the 02 sensors if I temporarily pull out the CATS. I was thinking of replacing the stock headers with SuperSprint which has the air injection ports, hi-flow cats for the mid-section, and a Corsa exhaust for the back part. My car is forced induction, and Karl from Active Autowerke, who's opinion I respect, says the CATS are the single biggest restriction on the stock system. Active sells a race header with simulators, but I don't think I can get past inspection with those. I have considered shorty headers (e.g Jet Hot) but they are supposedly very difficult to install, and offer minimal gains. Any advice would be appreciated. Matt Bader 98 M3/4 Delaware ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:56:48 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> With standard cams, I don't think headers will help you much. You will need simulators if you remove the cats. Aftermarket cats tend to have short lives. Technically it is illegal to replace working cats with aftermarket ones. Only failed cats can be replaced. I'd have track pipes made up and install the simulators for track use. Gary Derian > Does anyone have any experience with aftermarket Hi-flow catalytic > converters? I am trying to figure out a way to open up my exhaust while > still keeping things OBDII compliant. Alternatively, I'd like a way for > me > to have a set-up that would allow me to swap out the CATS for track days > with a mid-pipe of some sort. But, it is not clear to me how I deal with > the > 02 sensors if I temporarily pull out the CATS. I was thinking of > replacing > the stock headers with SuperSprint which has the air injection ports, > hi-flow cats for the mid-section, and a Corsa exhaust for the back part. > > My car is forced induction, and Karl from Active Autowerke, who's opinion > I > respect, says the CATS are the single biggest restriction on the stock > system. Active sells a race header with simulators, but I don't think I > can > get past inspection with those. > > I have considered shorty headers (e.g Jet Hot) but they are supposedly > very > difficult to install, and offer minimal gains. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Matt Bader > 98 M3/4 > Delaware > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:23:49 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Gary Derian'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes, that is my basic understanding of the situation. Thanks. What started this all off was the fact that I wanted to upgrade the cams and the general consensus seems to be that you need to do exhaust and cams in tandem in order for things to work to maximum benefit. I also think I need a better understanding of how the air injection system and O2 sensor system works. I believe its main purpose is to ensure that the cats heat up as quickly as possible for cold starts. Not sure whether engine management gets involved beyond that in terms of exhaust gas temperatures, A/F ratios, etc. Thanks for the feedback. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Gary Derian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:57 AM To: Matt Bader; [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters With standard cams, I don't think headers will help you much. You will need simulators if you remove the cats. Aftermarket cats tend to have short lives. Technically it is illegal to replace working cats with aftermarket ones. Only failed cats can be replaced. I'd have track pipes made up and install the simulators for track use. Gary Derian > Does anyone have any experience with aftermarket Hi-flow catalytic > converters? I am trying to figure out a way to open up my exhaust while > still keeping things OBDII compliant. Alternatively, I'd like a way for > me > to have a set-up that would allow me to swap out the CATS for track days > with a mid-pipe of some sort. But, it is not clear to me how I deal with > the > 02 sensors if I temporarily pull out the CATS. I was thinking of > replacing > the stock headers with SuperSprint which has the air injection ports, > hi-flow cats for the mid-section, and a Corsa exhaust for the back part. > > My car is forced induction, and Karl from Active Autowerke, who's opinion > I > respect, says the CATS are the single biggest restriction on the stock > system. Active sells a race header with simulators, but I don't think I > can > get past inspection with those. > > I have considered shorty headers (e.g Jet Hot) but they are supposedly > very > difficult to install, and offer minimal gains. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Matt Bader > 98 M3/4 > Delaware > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:41:42 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The air pump adds air to the rich exhaust during warm-up. This cleans the exhaust and heats the cats faster. The front oxygen sensor sends mixture info to the engine so the fuel mix is stoichiometric during all operations besides full throttle. A stoich mixture provides the proper feedgas to the catalyst. The rear oxygen sensor monitors the effectiveness of the catalyst. Be careful when upgrading cams on a supercharged engine. You should have much higher intake pressure than exhaust pressure during overlap. Excess overlap will merely bleed the intake air through the chamber and out. You need specific supercharged engine cams. Upgraded cams go along with tuned headers for an atmo engine. This way the pressure pulses work together to scavenge the combustion chamber during overlap. A supercharged engine has different pressure levels and needs different tuning. Gary Derian > Yes, that is my basic understanding of the situation. Thanks. > > What started this all off was the fact that I wanted to upgrade the cams > and > the general consensus seems to be that you need to do exhaust and cams in > tandem in order for things to work to maximum benefit. > > I also think I need a better understanding of how the air injection system > and O2 sensor system works. I believe its main purpose is to ensure that > the cats heat up as quickly as possible for cold starts. Not sure whether > engine management gets involved beyond that in terms of exhaust gas > temperatures, A/F ratios, etc. > > Thanks for the feedback. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Derian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 7:57 AM > To: Matt Bader; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [UUC] Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters > > With standard cams, I don't think headers will help you much. You will > need > > simulators if you remove the cats. Aftermarket cats tend to have short > lives. Technically it is illegal to replace working cats with aftermarket > ones. Only failed cats can be replaced. I'd have track pipes made up and > install the simulators for track use. > > Gary Derian > >> Does anyone have any experience with aftermarket Hi-flow catalytic >> converters? I am trying to figure out a way to open up my exhaust while >> still keeping things OBDII compliant. Alternatively, I'd like a way for >> me >> to have a set-up that would allow me to swap out the CATS for track days >> with a mid-pipe of some sort. But, it is not clear to me how I deal with >> the >> 02 sensors if I temporarily pull out the CATS. I was thinking of >> replacing >> the stock headers with SuperSprint which has the air injection ports, >> hi-flow cats for the mid-section, and a Corsa exhaust for the back part. >> >> My car is forced induction, and Karl from Active Autowerke, who's opinion >> I >> respect, says the CATS are the single biggest restriction on the stock >> system. Active sells a race header with simulators, but I don't think I >> can >> get past inspection with those. >> >> I have considered shorty headers (e.g Jet Hot) but they are supposedly >> very >> difficult to install, and offer minimal gains. >> >> Any advice would be appreciated. >> >> Matt Bader >> 98 M3/4 >> Delaware >> >> >> >> Search the >> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. >> >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Matt Bader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The rear oxygen sensor monitors the effectiveness of the > catalyst. I found something interesting on a forum where people with track pipes were just plugging in their rear O2 sensors into the track pipe but using spacers. Apparently that was enough to change the readings and not trigger the check engine light. I believe they used those spark plug non-fouler thingies that AutoZone sells as the spacer. That's one way to save on simulators which I think cost about $200 from AA. I will likely try this at some point as I want to have a track pipe fabbed up for my car. Carlos 98 M3 89 325i __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:11:29 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Carlos Lopez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Hi-Flow Catalytic Converters Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Letting the check engine light on my not be a problem, either, unless there is some limp mode for any check engine condition. Gary Derian > --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The rear oxygen sensor monitors the effectiveness of the >> catalyst. > > I found something interesting on a forum where people with track pipes > were just plugging in their rear O2 sensors into the track pipe but > using spacers. Apparently that was enough to change the readings and > not trigger the check engine light. I believe they used those spark > plug non-fouler thingies that AutoZone sells as the spacer. That's one > way to save on simulators which I think cost about $200 from AA. > > I will likely try this at some point as I want to have a track pipe > fabbed up for my car. > > Carlos > 98 M3 > 89 325i > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:56:00 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] (bmw list) Subject: RANT Emissions test... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pardon me while I rant... Why can't I find anyone who can do an emissions test without messing it up? I had to do my bi-annual emissions test on my E30. Of course, it failed. Again. With much the same numbers as before... and before that, too. It fails consistently on high NOx. The first time it did this the state certified shop replaced my catalyst. The very next emissions test, it failed the exact same way. I wasn't going to believe that they catalyst was worn out in only two years. For my retest, I ran the car out on the highway and got it hot. I got right in and we tested it hot. The retest passed with flying colors. This time out I did the same highway run, but the guy doing the test let it sit for 10 minutes or so with the engine off before running the emissions test. Sure he revved the engine two or three times "to warm it up" but that doesn't do much. So now I have to go try this again and hope that I can get them to test it hot. I just plotted my last three tests (I know... not enough points) and they make these beautiful curves that match a typical three-way catalyst efficiency curves... grumble, grumble, cold cat... -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations and Security [EMAIL PROTECTED] Worcester Polytechnic Institute ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:34:40 -0700 From: "Jeff Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Good books on suspension dial-in? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Can anyone recommend a good book for laymen use on how to dial in a suspension setup? Not going racing but want to understand the decisions and implications of corner weighting, camber, caster, toe, shock and spring relationships, etc. Trying to setup a Porsche 951 as a solid lapping day car and feeling a little blind at the moment. TIA, Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:39:48 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Jeff Nord'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Good books on suspension dial-in? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I could benefit as well. I visited a driver's school event last week-end and loved it. Would also like to know the art of good suspension set up. Matt Bader 98 M3/4 Delaware -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff Nord Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 6:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [UUC] Good books on suspension dial-in? Can anyone recommend a good book for laymen use on how to dial in a suspension setup? Not going racing but want to understand the decisions and implications of corner weighting, camber, caster, toe, shock and spring relationships, etc. Trying to setup a Porsche 951 as a solid lapping day car and feeling a little blind at the moment. TIA, Jeff Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(10 messages) **********
