OK, update. When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the pstat terminals. While the steam boiler was heating, terminals 1/com and 4/no show 60 volts. 1 and 2 of course show nothing. If I reverse wires 2/nc and 4/no, then cross pstat terminals 1 and 4, I get 120V. Switching them back to their normal configuration, once the steam boiler is heated and switched off, crossing 1 and 2 shows 120V.
Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the flickering of the PID and the machine-gun thing make me thing of an under-current situation, i.e. not enough power to make the relay fire crisply and all the way. I have also notice lately (though it didn't occur to me as to why), that my steam boiler is being outrun when I steam milk. Lastly, it took forever for the vacuum breaker to seal shut just now; and it makes sense since the steam element is only getting 60V. So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage happening on this one wire? It goes to the solid state relay on terminal 1/L1. b Sent from my apple IIe > On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > > Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a flexible rubber > diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over time as it sat on a shelf for three > years. Pinging Chris again; also, he had offered 20%, not 10%, my mistake. > Talk soon, > bmc > Sent from my apple IIe > >> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> It seems like mine was around that date too. The second new one says 4/15. >> They could have had a bad run of pstats or it could just be bad luck. My >> last pstat lasted almost 8 years. >> >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> Thanks Herman. >>> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but there you go. >>> Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, but still chaps my butt. >>> >>> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the relay--don't try this at >>> home, kids! >>> >>> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, but will try the >>> p-stat reversal thing and see where that takes me. >>> >>> I'll post again in a bit. >>> >>> b >>> >>> Sent from my apple IIe >>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the same problem with a >>>> pstat and it only lasted 2 months. The next one worked fine. There should >>>> be a mfg date on the pstat. It seems like my first one was several years >>>> old and the second one was this year. I was having the same symptoms with >>>> the relief valve but no chatter. The chatter sounds like a relay or a >>>> solenoid. Can you pull the cover off and look at the relay while the >>>> chattering is going on? That might help narrow things down. You could have >>>> a bad pid or element in the brew boiler causing that not to get up to temp >>>> but honestly I don't work on these things enough to do anything but guess. >>>> I just bought the pid upgrade for my machine but I may hold off on >>>> installing it for a few more days. Maybe Todd will jump in and give you >>>> some ideas. >>>> Herman >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hey all! >>>>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're all waking from >>>>> your food comas. I had more pie for breakfast, but alas, with no >>>>> espresso. >>>>> >>>>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought I'd also ping the >>>>> collective and see if anyone has any ideas. Unfortunately, I have a >>>>> collection of symptoms at this point that I can't make fit a common >>>>> cause; perhaps they will make sense to one of you. >>>>> >>>>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this summer, and during >>>>> that process I replaced: >>>>> >>>>> --Both hi-limit switches >>>>> --One or both boiler elements >>>>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>>>> --PID temp probe >>>>> --Main power switch >>>>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>>>> >>>>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is visiting in two weeks, >>>>> and dearly loves a good latte. I spent several hundred on overnight >>>>> charges, parts, etc. while she was here in the summer, and managed 2 days >>>>> of lattes for her in her three-week visit. Hoping to get the machine >>>>> back in action fast! >>>>> >>>>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally disassembled everything, >>>>> descaled completely, and cleaned the solenoid until it was shiny, i.e. >>>>> all scale removed, etc. The solenoid functioned fine with power. >>>>> >>>>> The machine worked normally from summer until this week, but with one >>>>> weird symptom. It would occasionally make a machine-gun noise, i.e. >>>>> something mechanical opening and closing very rapidly, 5-10 times per >>>>> second maybe. To me, it is a higher pitched sound than the solenoid, and >>>>> sounds like it originates from the area of the giemme controller. Todd >>>>> suspected the solenoid might be sticking; I was thinking perhaps one of >>>>> the two relays in the giemme controller was misfiring (not sure that they >>>>> are even relays--but I'm referring to the two small sets of contacts in >>>>> the giemme that look like points from a points-and-condensor ignition). >>>>> At its worst, this symptom would continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut >>>>> the machine off and back on; it would seem to "reset" and stop. At its >>>>> best, it would last for a few seconds and stop on its own. It clearly is >>>>> related to when the machine goes to refill the steam boiler, i.e. when >>>>> closing the steam wand, dumping hot water boiler, etc. is when this would >>>>> happen, very intermittently. >>>>> >>>>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, i.e. it happens >>>>> 4-5 times while steaming enough milk for a latte, etc. When shutting off >>>>> the steam wand, when it goes to refill, the machine-gun noise happens >>>>> every time and frequently does not stop. As the machine sits at idle and >>>>> occasionally refills the steam boiler, it also makes the noise every time. >>>>> >>>>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit would be the giemme >>>>> or the solenoid, but wait, there's more... >>>>> >>>>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, which really confuse >>>>> the issue for me, because I admittedly don't know exactly how electricity >>>>> flows through the machine: >>>>> >>>>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to over-pressure about 3 >>>>> times in 5 months, causing the blowoff to activate. No way this should >>>>> be happening with a new p-stat, but otherwise it has been normal. As an >>>>> aside, Chris Coffee will not warrant the p-stat, stating 30 days is the >>>>> warranty from that manufacturer. So I have a 90-day-old failing part >>>>> that won't be covered. Unexpected. >>>>> >>>>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed at 105F for >>>>> several hours each morning for about four days in a row, and then later >>>>> in the day, has heated to 204F. >>>>> >>>>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to 105F and stayed >>>>> there all day, never heating to 204F. >>>>> >>>>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was blank when the >>>>> machine was on. It remained blank for about an hour, then suddenly lit >>>>> up. It showed 105F. Every time the steam boiler fired, the PID screen >>>>> would flicker and get really dim, almost not visible. Then it would >>>>> brighten right back up when the steam boiler turned off. >>>>> >>>>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe normal), the PID >>>>> numbers and "dot" will blink every few seconds, i.e. they go off for a >>>>> split second, and then come back on. The dot at this point will not stay >>>>> on for more than a split second also, i.e. it never shows the boiler >>>>> calling for heat once the steam boiler is off. >>>>> >>>>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there was a single time >>>>> where the steam boiler filled, and then shut off (solenoid clicked), but >>>>> the pump kept running indefinitely. I finally had to turn off the >>>>> machine to make it stop. After power cycling the machine, the pump >>>>> filled and stopped normally again. >>>>> >>>>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats normally, with the >>>>> exception of the machine-gun noise, which happens almost every time. >>>>> >>>>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told me this before, but >>>>> I'm trying to understand first how electricity travels in the machine. >>>>> So far, the only thing that seems like a common point to all of these >>>>> symptoms is the giemme controller, but that's based on my limited >>>>> understanding. >>>>> >>>>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch sends current to the >>>>> giemme, which sends current to the pump and to the pressure stat (via the >>>>> two "relays" in the giemme?). If the steam boiler is not up to temp, the >>>>> p-stat sends current to it until it is at pressure, then it sends current >>>>> onward to the PID. The PID sends that onwards in bursts via its >>>>> solid-state relay to heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, the giemme sends >>>>> current to the pump (via a relay?) and to the solenoid, so the solenoid >>>>> closes, diverting water to the steam boiler, and the steam boiler fills. >>>>> When water touches the probe in the steam boiler, it essentially shorts >>>>> out and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, sending water line >>>>> pressure to the brew boiler, which is held back by the group. When the >>>>> lever is lifted, the lever mechanically opens the group to let water >>>>> through, and the switch behind the lever sends power to the pump to cause >>>>> it to run and push water under pressure through the group. If, while >>>>> pulling a shot, the steam boiler level drops below its probe, the >>>>> solenoid closes and interrupts water to the brew boiler/group until the >>>>> steam boiler is filled again. >>>>> >>>>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really like to understand >>>>> this whole circuit, especially the giemme controller and what the two >>>>> mechanical contacts are for on that board. >>>>> >>>>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is the expected >>>>> service life of those? >>>>> >>>>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC terminals on the P-stat? >>>>> Wouldn't that have the effect of prioritizing the PID first? >>>>> >>>>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good coffee for me! >>>>> >>>>> best, >>>>> Ben McC >>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
