You could have a loose wire, but I doubt it. What's the voltage going into the pid? You could also have a bad ground. I've had that happen on other things and it causes the power to be all over the place.
On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > OK, update. > > When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the pstat terminals. > While the steam boiler was heating, terminals 1/com and 4/no show 60 volts. > 1 and 2 of course show nothing. If I reverse wires 2/nc and 4/no, then > cross pstat terminals 1 and 4, I get 120V. Switching them back to their > normal configuration, once the steam boiler is heated and switched off, > crossing 1 and 2 shows 120V. > > Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the flickering of > the PID and the machine-gun thing make me thing of an under-current > situation, i.e. not enough power to make the relay fire crisply and all the > way. I have also notice lately (though it didn't occur to me as to why), > that my steam boiler is being outrun when I steam milk. Lastly, it took > forever for the vacuum breaker to seal shut just now; and it makes sense > since the steam element is only getting 60V. > > So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage happening on this one > wire? It goes to the solid state relay on terminal 1/L1. > > b > > Sent from my apple IIe > > On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > > Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a flexible rubber > diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over time as it sat on a shelf for > three years. Pinging Chris again; also, he had offered 20%, not 10%, my > mistake. > Talk soon, > bmc > Sent from my apple IIe > > On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > It seems like mine was around that date too. The second new one says 4/15. > They could have had a bad run of pstats or it could just be bad luck. My > last pstat lasted almost 8 years. > > On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thanks Herman. >> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but there you go. >> Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, but still chaps my butt. >> >> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the relay--don't try this at >> home, kids! >> >> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, but will try the >> p-stat reversal thing and see where that takes me. >> >> I'll post again in a bit. >> >> b >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the same problem with >> a pstat and it only lasted 2 months. The next one worked fine. There should >> be a mfg date on the pstat. It seems like my first one was several years >> old and the second one was this year. I was having the same symptoms with >> the relief valve but no chatter. The chatter sounds like a relay or a >> solenoid. Can you pull the cover off and look at the relay while the >> chattering is going on? That might help narrow things down. You could have >> a bad pid or element in the brew boiler causing that not to get up to temp >> but honestly I don't work on these things enough to do anything but guess. >> I just bought the pid upgrade for my machine but I may hold off on >> installing it for a few more days. Maybe Todd will jump in and give you >> some ideas. >> Herman >> >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all! >>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're all waking from >>> your food comas. I had more pie for breakfast, but alas, with no espresso. >>> >>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought I'd also ping the >>> collective and see if anyone has any ideas. Unfortunately, I have a >>> collection of symptoms at this point that I can't make fit a common cause; >>> perhaps they will make sense to one of you. >>> >>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this summer, and during >>> that process I replaced: >>> >>> --Both hi-limit switches >>> --One or both boiler elements >>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>> --PID temp probe >>> --Main power switch >>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>> >>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is visiting in two >>> weeks, and dearly loves a good latte. I spent several hundred on overnight >>> charges, parts, etc. while she was here in the summer, and managed 2 days >>> of lattes for her in her three-week visit. Hoping to get the machine back >>> in action fast! >>> >>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally disassembled everything, >>> descaled completely, and cleaned the solenoid until it was shiny, i.e. all >>> scale removed, etc. The solenoid functioned fine with power. >>> >>> The machine worked normally from summer until this week, but with one >>> weird symptom. It would occasionally make a machine-gun noise, i.e. >>> something mechanical opening and closing very rapidly, 5-10 times per >>> second maybe. To me, it is a higher pitched sound than the solenoid, and >>> sounds like it originates from the area of the giemme controller. Todd >>> suspected the solenoid might be sticking; I was thinking perhaps one of the >>> two relays in the giemme controller was misfiring (not sure that they are >>> even relays--but I'm referring to the two small sets of contacts in the >>> giemme that look like points from a points-and-condensor ignition). At its >>> worst, this symptom would continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut the machine >>> off and back on; it would seem to "reset" and stop. At its best, it would >>> last for a few seconds and stop on its own. It clearly is related to when >>> the machine goes to refill the steam boiler, i.e. when closing the steam >>> wand, dumping hot water boiler, etc. is when this would happen, very >>> intermittently. >>> >>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, i.e. it happens >>> 4-5 times while steaming enough milk for a latte, etc. When shutting off >>> the steam wand, when it goes to refill, the machine-gun noise happens every >>> time and frequently does not stop. As the machine sits at idle and >>> occasionally refills the steam boiler, it also makes the noise every time. >>> >>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit would be the giemme >>> or the solenoid, but wait, there's more... >>> >>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, which really >>> confuse the issue for me, because I admittedly don't know exactly how >>> electricity flows through the machine: >>> >>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to over-pressure about 3 >>> times in 5 months, causing the blowoff to activate. No way this should be >>> happening with a new p-stat, but otherwise it has been normal. As an >>> aside, Chris Coffee will not warrant the p-stat, stating 30 days is the >>> warranty from that manufacturer. So I have a 90-day-old failing part that >>> won't be covered. Unexpected. >>> >>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed at 105F for >>> several hours each morning for about four days in a row, and then later in >>> the day, has heated to 204F. >>> >>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to 105F and stayed >>> there all day, never heating to 204F. >>> >>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was blank when the >>> machine was on. It remained blank for about an hour, then suddenly lit >>> up. It showed 105F. Every time the steam boiler fired, the PID screen >>> would flicker and get really dim, almost not visible. Then it would >>> brighten right back up when the steam boiler turned off. >>> >>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe normal), the PID >>> numbers and "dot" will blink every few seconds, i.e. they go off for a >>> split second, and then come back on. The dot at this point will not stay >>> on for more than a split second also, i.e. it never shows the boiler >>> calling for heat once the steam boiler is off. >>> >>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there was a single >>> time where the steam boiler filled, and then shut off (solenoid clicked), >>> but the pump kept running indefinitely. I finally had to turn off the >>> machine to make it stop. After power cycling the machine, the pump filled >>> and stopped normally again. >>> >>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats normally, with the >>> exception of the machine-gun noise, which happens almost every time. >>> >>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told me this before, >>> but I'm trying to understand first how electricity travels in the machine. >>> So far, the only thing that seems like a common point to all of these >>> symptoms is the giemme controller, but that's based on my limited >>> understanding. >>> >>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch sends current to the >>> giemme, which sends current to the pump and to the pressure stat (via the >>> two "relays" in the giemme?). If the steam boiler is not up to temp, the >>> p-stat sends current to it until it is at pressure, then it sends current >>> onward to the PID. The PID sends that onwards in bursts via its >>> solid-state relay to heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, the giemme sends >>> current to the pump (via a relay?) and to the solenoid, so the solenoid >>> closes, diverting water to the steam boiler, and the steam boiler fills. >>> When water touches the probe in the steam boiler, it essentially shorts out >>> and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, sending water line pressure to >>> the brew boiler, which is held back by the group. When the lever is >>> lifted, the lever mechanically opens the group to let water through, and >>> the switch behind the lever sends power to the pump to cause it to run and >>> push water under pressure through the group. If, while pulling a shot, the >>> steam boiler level drops below its probe, the solenoid closes and >>> interrupts water to the brew boiler/group until the steam boiler is filled >>> again. >>> >>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really like to understand >>> this whole circuit, especially the giemme controller and what the two >>> mechanical contacts are for on that board. >>> >>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is the expected >>> service life of those? >>> >>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC terminals on the P-stat? >>> Wouldn't that have the effect of prioritizing the PID first? >>> >>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good coffee for me! >>> >>> best, >>> Ben McC >>> Sent from my apple IIe >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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