At the rocker switch is 112.9. At the outer two terminals of the PID with the negative held to a ground bolt on the case is 113.2. Center two terminals of the PID are 4 or less.
Good thought on the ground, I'll check. That was the culprit on old BMW motorcycles more times than not... b Sent from my apple IIe > On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:55, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > You could have a loose wire, but I doubt it. What's the voltage going into > the pid? You could also have a bad ground. I've had that happen on other > things and it causes the power to be all over the place. > >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> OK, update. >> >> When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the pstat terminals. >> While the steam boiler was heating, terminals 1/com and 4/no show 60 volts. >> 1 and 2 of course show nothing. If I reverse wires 2/nc and 4/no, then >> cross pstat terminals 1 and 4, I get 120V. Switching them back to their >> normal configuration, once the steam boiler is heated and switched off, >> crossing 1 and 2 shows 120V. >> >> Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the flickering of the >> PID and the machine-gun thing make me thing of an under-current situation, >> i.e. not enough power to make the relay fire crisply and all the way. I >> have also notice lately (though it didn't occur to me as to why), that my >> steam boiler is being outrun when I steam milk. Lastly, it took forever for >> the vacuum breaker to seal shut just now; and it makes sense since the steam >> element is only getting 60V. >> >> So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage happening on this one >> wire? It goes to the solid state relay on terminal 1/L1. >> >> b >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a flexible rubber >>> diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over time as it sat on a shelf for >>> three years. Pinging Chris again; also, he had offered 20%, not 10%, my >>> mistake. >>> Talk soon, >>> bmc >>> Sent from my apple IIe >>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> It seems like mine was around that date too. The second new one says 4/15. >>>> They could have had a bad run of pstats or it could just be bad luck. My >>>> last pstat lasted almost 8 years. >>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Thanks Herman. >>>>> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but there you go. >>>>> Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, but still chaps my butt. >>>>> >>>>> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the relay--don't try this at >>>>> home, kids! >>>>> >>>>> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, but will try the >>>>> p-stat reversal thing and see where that takes me. >>>>> >>>>> I'll post again in a bit. >>>>> >>>>> b >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the same problem with >>>>>> a pstat and it only lasted 2 months. The next one worked fine. There >>>>>> should be a mfg date on the pstat. It seems like my first one was >>>>>> several years old and the second one was this year. I was having the >>>>>> same symptoms with the relief valve but no chatter. The chatter sounds >>>>>> like a relay or a solenoid. Can you pull the cover off and look at the >>>>>> relay while the chattering is going on? That might help narrow things >>>>>> down. You could have a bad pid or element in the brew boiler causing >>>>>> that not to get up to temp but honestly I don't work on these things >>>>>> enough to do anything but guess. I just bought the pid upgrade for my >>>>>> machine but I may hold off on installing it for a few more days. Maybe >>>>>> Todd will jump in and give you some ideas. >>>>>> Herman >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hey all! >>>>>>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're all waking from >>>>>>> your food comas. I had more pie for breakfast, but alas, with no >>>>>>> espresso. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought I'd also ping >>>>>>> the collective and see if anyone has any ideas. Unfortunately, I have >>>>>>> a collection of symptoms at this point that I can't make fit a common >>>>>>> cause; perhaps they will make sense to one of you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this summer, and during >>>>>>> that process I replaced: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Both hi-limit switches >>>>>>> --One or both boiler elements >>>>>>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>>>>>> --PID temp probe >>>>>>> --Main power switch >>>>>>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is visiting in two >>>>>>> weeks, and dearly loves a good latte. I spent several hundred on >>>>>>> overnight charges, parts, etc. while she was here in the summer, and >>>>>>> managed 2 days of lattes for her in her three-week visit. Hoping to >>>>>>> get the machine back in action fast! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally disassembled >>>>>>> everything, descaled completely, and cleaned the solenoid until it was >>>>>>> shiny, i.e. all scale removed, etc. The solenoid functioned fine with >>>>>>> power. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The machine worked normally from summer until this week, but with one >>>>>>> weird symptom. It would occasionally make a machine-gun noise, i.e. >>>>>>> something mechanical opening and closing very rapidly, 5-10 times per >>>>>>> second maybe. To me, it is a higher pitched sound than the solenoid, >>>>>>> and sounds like it originates from the area of the giemme controller. >>>>>>> Todd suspected the solenoid might be sticking; I was thinking perhaps >>>>>>> one of the two relays in the giemme controller was misfiring (not sure >>>>>>> that they are even relays--but I'm referring to the two small sets of >>>>>>> contacts in the giemme that look like points from a >>>>>>> points-and-condensor ignition). At its worst, this symptom would >>>>>>> continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut the machine off and back on; it >>>>>>> would seem to "reset" and stop. At its best, it would last for a few >>>>>>> seconds and stop on its own. It clearly is related to when the machine >>>>>>> goes to refill the steam boiler, i.e. when closing the steam wand, >>>>>>> dumping hot water boiler, etc. is when this would happen, very >>>>>>> intermittently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, i.e. it happens >>>>>>> 4-5 times while steaming enough milk for a latte, etc. When shutting >>>>>>> off the steam wand, when it goes to refill, the machine-gun noise >>>>>>> happens every time and frequently does not stop. As the machine sits >>>>>>> at idle and occasionally refills the steam boiler, it also makes the >>>>>>> noise every time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit would be the giemme >>>>>>> or the solenoid, but wait, there's more... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, which really >>>>>>> confuse the issue for me, because I admittedly don't know exactly how >>>>>>> electricity flows through the machine: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to over-pressure about 3 >>>>>>> times in 5 months, causing the blowoff to activate. No way this should >>>>>>> be happening with a new p-stat, but otherwise it has been normal. As >>>>>>> an aside, Chris Coffee will not warrant the p-stat, stating 30 days is >>>>>>> the warranty from that manufacturer. So I have a 90-day-old failing >>>>>>> part that won't be covered. Unexpected. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed at 105F for >>>>>>> several hours each morning for about four days in a row, and then later >>>>>>> in the day, has heated to 204F. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to 105F and stayed >>>>>>> there all day, never heating to 204F. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was blank when the >>>>>>> machine was on. It remained blank for about an hour, then suddenly lit >>>>>>> up. It showed 105F. Every time the steam boiler fired, the PID screen >>>>>>> would flicker and get really dim, almost not visible. Then it would >>>>>>> brighten right back up when the steam boiler turned off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe normal), the PID >>>>>>> numbers and "dot" will blink every few seconds, i.e. they go off for a >>>>>>> split second, and then come back on. The dot at this point will not >>>>>>> stay on for more than a split second also, i.e. it never shows the >>>>>>> boiler calling for heat once the steam boiler is off. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there was a single >>>>>>> time where the steam boiler filled, and then shut off (solenoid >>>>>>> clicked), but the pump kept running indefinitely. I finally had to >>>>>>> turn off the machine to make it stop. After power cycling the machine, >>>>>>> the pump filled and stopped normally again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats normally, with the >>>>>>> exception of the machine-gun noise, which happens almost every time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told me this before, >>>>>>> but I'm trying to understand first how electricity travels in the >>>>>>> machine. So far, the only thing that seems like a common point to all >>>>>>> of these symptoms is the giemme controller, but that's based on my >>>>>>> limited understanding. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch sends current to the >>>>>>> giemme, which sends current to the pump and to the pressure stat (via >>>>>>> the two "relays" in the giemme?). If the steam boiler is not up to >>>>>>> temp, the p-stat sends current to it until it is at pressure, then it >>>>>>> sends current onward to the PID. The PID sends that onwards in bursts >>>>>>> via its solid-state relay to heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, the >>>>>>> giemme sends current to the pump (via a relay?) and to the solenoid, so >>>>>>> the solenoid closes, diverting water to the steam boiler, and the steam >>>>>>> boiler fills. When water touches the probe in the steam boiler, it >>>>>>> essentially shorts out and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, >>>>>>> sending water line pressure to the brew boiler, which is held back by >>>>>>> the group. When the lever is lifted, the lever mechanically opens the >>>>>>> group to let water through, and the switch behind the lever sends power >>>>>>> to the pump to cause it to run and push water under pressure through >>>>>>> the group. If, while pulling a shot, the steam boiler level drops >>>>>>> below its probe, the solenoid closes and interrupts water to the brew >>>>>>> boiler/group until the steam boiler is filled again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really like to understand >>>>>>> this whole circuit, especially the giemme controller and what the two >>>>>>> mechanical contacts are for on that board. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is the expected >>>>>>> service life of those? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC terminals on the P-stat? >>>>>>> Wouldn't that have the effect of prioritizing the PID first? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good coffee for me! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> best, >>>>>>> Ben McC >>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. 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