Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it comes 
with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and at $600, 
maybe worth the future trouble? 


> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything that 
> can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor to blame 
> for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period of 
> reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. 
> 
> b
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Ben, 
>> 
>> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding 
>> expensive at that rate.
>> 
>> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are spending on 
>> annual maintenance?  
>> 
>> Cheers, 
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus 
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A bunch of great advice here. 
>>> 
>>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to have 
>>> the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d never go 
>>> back.
>>> 
>>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also adjust 
>>> the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around 1.45 bar if 
>>> memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. stock settings. 
>>> 
>>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional 
>>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a 
>>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso 
>>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll find it.
>>> 
>>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to temp 
>>> (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case with all 
>>> E61’s).
>>> 
>>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group and 
>>> the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my machine 
>>> every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went with the ECM 
>>> instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The ECM likes to eat 
>>> vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube that goes from the 
>>> vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, keeps the steam condensation 
>>> out of the housing). That tubing rots regularly also. I’ve done one 
>>> element, very easy replacement method.
>>> 
>>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid sealant. 
>>> Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a heating element 
>>> from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory sealant—definitely need a 
>>> friend with an impact hammer and a way to clamp the boiler in a vise 
>>> without bending it. With teflon tape, the remove/replace is worlds easier.
>>> 
>>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump was a 
>>> regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work other than 
>>> setting the pressure when I installed it.
>>> 
>>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour under 
>>> pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice.
>>> 
>>> Best of luck, keep us posted!
>>> b
>>> 
>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a part 
>>>> time tub repair job! 
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point where it 
>>>> feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <[email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a few 
>>>>> months until I was able to plumb it in.  No issues there.  When I did 
>>>>> plumb it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the machine so 
>>>>> I had to add a pressure regulator upstream from it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this 
>>>>> machine.  In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced several 
>>>>> parts including a control board, a heating element, a sensor, and for 
>>>>> whatever reason I am averaging going through about two pressurestat per 
>>>>> year (I buy them in bulk now). If you enjoy learning about these machines 
>>>>> and don't mind working on them, then go for it, but if you don't, then 
>>>>> steer clear.   On the upside, this group is extremely helpful as has been 
>>>>> Whole Latte Love tech support.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler 
>>>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <[email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just stick 
>>>>>> a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary pump needs a 
>>>>>> minimum water pressure to function, but I could be wrong there. 
>>>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote:
>>>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. I’m 
>>>>>>> currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a huge time 
>>>>>>> suck as well.. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of good 
>>>>>>> H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and 
>>>>>>> figuring out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, etc. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <[email protected] <>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal 
>>>>>>>> (heating elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd be 
>>>>>>>> right there with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a leaking 
>>>>>>>> machine at $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. The plumbed 
>>>>>>>> rotary IV version is quite a nice machine. My biggest gripe (which is 
>>>>>>>> a common one) is the lack of steam power, but there are ways to 
>>>>>>>> improve that with different tips/wands. I chose a higher-wattage steam 
>>>>>>>> element, and if the elements are due for replacement anyway, this is 
>>>>>>>> an option (but not a trivial option, as it does involve replacing 
>>>>>>>> wiring that's not intended for higher current). 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask 
>>>>>>>>> is $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more 
>>>>>>>>> than $600-700. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of the 
>>>>>>>>> line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts are 
>>>>>>>>> harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example??
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus 
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hey there Peter,
>>>>>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what 
>>>>>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair 
>>>>>>>>>> parts, and as Pitcher said how handy are you?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer 
>>>>>>>>>> in service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very 
>>>>>>>>>> similar). At 8 years, you are definitely into the phase where you 
>>>>>>>>>> will be replacing things and I feel that’s to be expected. As to the 
>>>>>>>>>> lack of descaling, that may or may not be an issue—where I live, I 
>>>>>>>>>> rarely descaled my brewtus and didn’t have any buildup to mention. 
>>>>>>>>>> Definitely not the case in all areas. As an aside, I’ve been using 
>>>>>>>>>> the BWT system (WLL carries it) for maybe 6 years now and it is 
>>>>>>>>>> money well spent. No more descaling is their claim, it’s been true 
>>>>>>>>>> for me (I live in a different area now than I did with the B2 that 
>>>>>>>>>> didn’t scale, harder water here).
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need 
>>>>>>>>>> replacing relatively soon:
>>>>>>>>>> —both boiler elements
>>>>>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers
>>>>>>>>>> —pressurestat
>>>>>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger
>>>>>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to 
>>>>>>>>>> the hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut
>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group
>>>>>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a 
>>>>>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I have 
>>>>>>>>>> a bag of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one or more).
>>>>>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Less likely but possible:
>>>>>>>>>> —PID
>>>>>>>>>> —Giemme control box
>>>>>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler
>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the wands
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re 
>>>>>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), 
>>>>>>>>>> I’d say go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, and 
>>>>>>>>>> since you’ll be doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s good 
>>>>>>>>>> knowledge to have. Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and use it, 
>>>>>>>>>> fix the leak, and then be pleasantly surprised (and money ahead) for 
>>>>>>>>>> the time that you don’t need to do the things I mentioned above.  ;)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that is 
>>>>>>>>>> not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine ever, 
>>>>>>>>>> unless a line blew or something like that. You should be able to 
>>>>>>>>>> chase that down and fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! Water under 
>>>>>>>>>> the machine is one of those things that drains my energy fast—just 
>>>>>>>>>> annoys the crap out of me I guess!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It 
>>>>>>>>>> works great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to get 
>>>>>>>>>> things aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have always 
>>>>>>>>>> used yellow teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste over the 
>>>>>>>>>> tape if you wish) and have never had a leak that I can recall. Just 
>>>>>>>>>> might save you a little headache/heartburn.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> b
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <[email protected] <>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming 
>>>>>>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for the 
>>>>>>>>>>> states. My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over the last 
>>>>>>>>>>> 8 yrs...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <[email protected] 
>>>>>>>>>>>> <>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine is 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> see where it is dripping from to give you a better idea. There are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> some things to consider if you are going to purchase. How handy 
>>>>>>>>>>>> are you? Some things I would recommend doing to your machine to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> make it more hardy. Is the machine for the States or Overseas? The 
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine was built for 220 v 10 amps. The States where I live are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 120 v 20 amps. The extra amps over time has caused some problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <[email protected] <>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently it drips a small amount of discolored water as it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> warms up. Collects on counter under machine. She's never descaled 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it for the 8+/- yrs she's owned it. I am not sure about her water 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quality but she has it on a filter. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag??
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Pitcher"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher
>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <tel:(225)%20408-9041>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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