Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it comes with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and at $600, maybe worth the future trouble?
> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything that > can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor to blame > for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period of > reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. > > b > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Ben, >> >> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding >> expensive at that rate. >> >> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are spending on >> annual maintenance? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Peter >> >>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> A bunch of great advice here. >>> >>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to have >>> the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d never go >>> back. >>> >>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also adjust >>> the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around 1.45 bar if >>> memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. stock settings. >>> >>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional >>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a >>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso >>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll find it. >>> >>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to temp >>> (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case with all >>> E61’s). >>> >>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group and >>> the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my machine >>> every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went with the ECM >>> instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The ECM likes to eat >>> vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube that goes from the >>> vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, keeps the steam condensation >>> out of the housing). That tubing rots regularly also. I’ve done one >>> element, very easy replacement method. >>> >>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid sealant. >>> Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a heating element >>> from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory sealant—definitely need a >>> friend with an impact hammer and a way to clamp the boiler in a vise >>> without bending it. With teflon tape, the remove/replace is worlds easier. >>> >>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump was a >>> regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work other than >>> setting the pressure when I installed it. >>> >>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour under >>> pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice. >>> >>> Best of luck, keep us posted! >>> b >>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a part >>>> time tub repair job! >>>> >>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point where it >>>> feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. >>>> >>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a few >>>>> months until I was able to plumb it in. No issues there. When I did >>>>> plumb it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the machine so >>>>> I had to add a pressure regulator upstream from it. >>>>> >>>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this >>>>> machine. In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced several >>>>> parts including a control board, a heating element, a sensor, and for >>>>> whatever reason I am averaging going through about two pressurestat per >>>>> year (I buy them in bulk now). If you enjoy learning about these machines >>>>> and don't mind working on them, then go for it, but if you don't, then >>>>> steer clear. On the upside, this group is extremely helpful as has been >>>>> Whole Latte Love tech support. >>>>> >>>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler >>>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just stick >>>>>> a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary pump needs a >>>>>> minimum water pressure to function, but I could be wrong there. >>>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. I’m >>>>>>> currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a huge time >>>>>>> suck as well.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of good >>>>>>> H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and >>>>>>> figuring out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal >>>>>>>> (heating elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd be >>>>>>>> right there with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a leaking >>>>>>>> machine at $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. The plumbed >>>>>>>> rotary IV version is quite a nice machine. My biggest gripe (which is >>>>>>>> a common one) is the lack of steam power, but there are ways to >>>>>>>> improve that with different tips/wands. I chose a higher-wattage steam >>>>>>>> element, and if the elements are due for replacement anyway, this is >>>>>>>> an option (but not a trivial option, as it does involve replacing >>>>>>>> wiring that's not intended for higher current). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask >>>>>>>>> is $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more >>>>>>>>> than $600-700. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of the >>>>>>>>> line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts are >>>>>>>>> harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example?? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey there Peter, >>>>>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what >>>>>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair >>>>>>>>>> parts, and as Pitcher said how handy are you? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer >>>>>>>>>> in service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very >>>>>>>>>> similar). At 8 years, you are definitely into the phase where you >>>>>>>>>> will be replacing things and I feel that’s to be expected. As to the >>>>>>>>>> lack of descaling, that may or may not be an issue—where I live, I >>>>>>>>>> rarely descaled my brewtus and didn’t have any buildup to mention. >>>>>>>>>> Definitely not the case in all areas. As an aside, I’ve been using >>>>>>>>>> the BWT system (WLL carries it) for maybe 6 years now and it is >>>>>>>>>> money well spent. No more descaling is their claim, it’s been true >>>>>>>>>> for me (I live in a different area now than I did with the B2 that >>>>>>>>>> didn’t scale, harder water here). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need >>>>>>>>>> replacing relatively soon: >>>>>>>>>> —both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers >>>>>>>>>> —pressurestat >>>>>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger >>>>>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to >>>>>>>>>> the hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut >>>>>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group >>>>>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a >>>>>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I have >>>>>>>>>> a bag of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one or more). >>>>>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Less likely but possible: >>>>>>>>>> —PID >>>>>>>>>> —Giemme control box >>>>>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>> —seals for the wands >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re >>>>>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), >>>>>>>>>> I’d say go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, and >>>>>>>>>> since you’ll be doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s good >>>>>>>>>> knowledge to have. Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and use it, >>>>>>>>>> fix the leak, and then be pleasantly surprised (and money ahead) for >>>>>>>>>> the time that you don’t need to do the things I mentioned above. ;) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that is >>>>>>>>>> not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine ever, >>>>>>>>>> unless a line blew or something like that. You should be able to >>>>>>>>>> chase that down and fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! Water under >>>>>>>>>> the machine is one of those things that drains my energy fast—just >>>>>>>>>> annoys the crap out of me I guess! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It >>>>>>>>>> works great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to get >>>>>>>>>> things aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have always >>>>>>>>>> used yellow teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste over the >>>>>>>>>> tape if you wish) and have never had a leak that I can recall. Just >>>>>>>>>> might save you a little headache/heartburn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming >>>>>>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for the >>>>>>>>>>> states. My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over the last >>>>>>>>>>> 8 yrs... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine is >>>>>>>>>>>> 15 years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have to >>>>>>>>>>>> see where it is dripping from to give you a better idea. There are >>>>>>>>>>>> some things to consider if you are going to purchase. How handy >>>>>>>>>>>> are you? Some things I would recommend doing to your machine to >>>>>>>>>>>> make it more hardy. Is the machine for the States or Overseas? The >>>>>>>>>>>> machine was built for 220 v 10 amps. The States where I live are >>>>>>>>>>>> 120 v 20 amps. The extra amps over time has caused some problems. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <[email protected] <>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur >>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently it drips a small amount of discolored water as it >>>>>>>>>>>>> warms up. Collects on counter under machine. She's never descaled >>>>>>>>>>>>> it for the 8+/- yrs she's owned it. I am not sure about her water >>>>>>>>>>>>> quality but she has it on a filter. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag?? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> "Pitcher" >>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <> >>>>>>>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <tel:(225)%20408-9041> 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/a9d81081-951c-44df-821b-3209e5402a01n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CAOJZtCL131o8ZqdaB7kBvc2%3DXftpAotYMjf8f4wZt3CUnd8MEA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CAOJZtCL131o8ZqdaB7kBvc2%3DXftpAotYMjf8f4wZt3CUnd8MEA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. 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