If I appear to have "anti-American blinders" on that only because I'm out-number in this board 10-1. Therefore I have to push this perspective a little more feverishly.
I'm not saying that american is responsible for all of the worlds ills. To say this would be folly and never once have I said this. I wish people would stop drawing this conclusion. My point is very simple. The balance of power in the world is far too in favour of the States and not by a small margin either. By a great divide. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Braver, Ben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:38 AM Subject: RE: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > Excuse me, but I need to point out that my comment about public opinion > polls is in NO WAY related to your vehement capitalist and U.S. bashing. > The cause-and-effect relationship you tacked on is your opinion, not mine. > > Before you blame everything on America, may I point out that the "RCA" brand > of televisions sold in the U.S. formerly stood for "Radio Corporation of > America" and it's now owned by Thomson Electronics, which is a French > company. > > IMHO you have anti-American blinders on, sir. We are not to blame for > *everything* that is wrong with the world. > > I agree strongly with views such as those of Raymond Camden that the U.S. is > the best country in the world. > And yes, we have flaws. > > And if you feel 99% of the U.S. population is "impoverished and repressed" > you've obviously never been here. We may have 1% of the population rich, > but we have an enormous and free middle class. I can choose which > commercials to watch, which products to buy. And if you think the stock > prices are creating great wealth, I suggest you look at the market indices > of late. > > -Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 3:23 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > > > > Further, that our elected officials seem driven by public opinion polls. > > Seems?! Its absolutely driven. I agree with you totally.... One such > slogan.... "The Day of Terror", or "America At War" etc etc... and they are > so craft these days... the feed emotional music in real time praying on > peoples fears to increase their ratings which sells more advertising slots > which sells more nike shoes which increases the companies stock which makes > 1% of the population rich and the other 99% impoverished and repressed. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Braver, Ben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:10 AM > Subject: RE: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > > > > Benjamin- > > Well said, sir. > > > > IMHO the "sound bite" media catering to the "instant gratification" video > > game generation takes all depth and meaning out of the news. It's all > > simplified into short slogans. > > > > And I find it sad that such a heterogeneous country as the U.S. is so > > culturally ignorant about the rest of the world. > > > > Further, that our elected officials seem driven by public opinion polls. > > > > <sigh> > > > > -Ben > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Benjamin Falloon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 12:32 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > > > > > > I don't understand the opinions of a lot of Americans.... > > Americans seem to have a major superiority complex. All this talk about > > 'heroes 'war' and patriotic ramble. Anyone could be forgiven for thinking > > America was not a lot different from other empires of the past like > ancient > > Rome etc... Seems to me Americans believe their life is more valuable than > > the lives of other humans around the globe. > > > > I'm struck by the American media as well. If only the average American > could > > see the media from an outside perspective an realise how much america (and > > by way of cultural imperialism, the rest of the world) is being completely > > propagandised (like I have never seen as extreme before). The whole good > and > > evil debate. You know how many people GW pissed off when he used the word > > 'crusade' in his rhetoric? How offensive must that have been to people of > > the Islamic faith (given history). Maybe our so called advanced > civilisation > > really isn't that different from the dark ages of the crusades... We don't > > read anymore, we are incapable of forming independent opinions, all we do > is > > consume (which is the measure of our worth) and we boil complex > > international politics down to simple binaries philosophies because we are > > incapable of seeing a more complex reality in which we aren't as innocent > as > > we make ourselves out to be. In short, we are reactionary and are > motivated > > by our emotions (fuelled by the media which feeds on our fear). I really > > think that the so called american 'way of life' is just a guise for > > maintaining western luxuries at the expense of the rest of the world. > > > > Some thoughts... > > > > B > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Angel Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 5:09 AM > > Subject: Re: The Anti Terrorism Act.. > > > > > > > *scratches head* > > > Uhh...I'm trying to sift through all the patriotic stuff and hero this > and > > > hero that and trying to figure out what you're trying to say and how it > > was > > > cogent to my misgivings about the ATA. > > > > > > Basically, you agree with that Anti Terrorism Act as it stands, and see > > > nothing wrong with government agents entering your home or your > > neighbour's > > > home forcefully (i.e. possibly destroying your door, your furniture > etc. ) > > > and without a search warrant, because a suspected terrorist (Actually > just > > a > > > School Teacher from Kindustan) happened to buy something from a store > that > > > your cousin Ed in Alabama owns? > > > > > > And once its made law, Pierre..how will you 'deal' with it? > > > Try to repeal the law at that point? > > > Should Americans give up their constitutionally assured freedoms in a > knee > > > jerk reaction to these terrorist attacks? > > > > > > An Intelligence agency that is awarded BILLIONS of dollars a year was > > unable > > > to prevent (that's not entirely unforgivable) , and actually had no clue > > > about this attack (that's something else entirely..) that was supposedly > > > planned more than a year in advance, even though its powers were > expanded > > in > > > 1998 through laws that were passed to improve its ability to fight > > terrorist > > > threats. > > > > > > And the answer now is to further increase the power of these agencies by > > > removing the oversight of the Judiciary and making these Agencies a law > > unto > > > themselves? And when it happens again then what? > > > Mandate that every home in America be bugged and have surveillance > cameras > > > installed? Where does it stop, Pierre? > > > > > > Why was it that when suggestions were made to the FAA that security was > > > totally lax at American Airports..why was their response that it wasn't > > cost > > > effective to implement stricter security procedures? > > > > > > *********** > > > [ http://www.msnbc.com/news/635520.asp ] > > > > > > "In the very last meeting I had as inspector general with the FAA on > July > > 3, > > > 1996, they said that the cost of Pan Am 103 was $3 billion and if we had > > to > > > make airports completely safe at that time they guessed-and they > probably > > > absolutely guessed-that it would cost $10 billion. They figured we might > > > have another Pan Am 103, but it still wasn't worth the cost of the > > > heightened levels of security." > > > > > > [ > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/in_depth/americas/2001/america_attacked/new > > > sid_1574000/1574326.stm ] > > > > > > And here is another enlightening piece, and why I seriously doubt > further > > > expanding and trampling people's rights is what is needed. > > > ( And PLEASE if you are going to respond, at least read the article this > > > time. ;-) ) > > > ******************** > > > > > > Is it more laws that are needed? > > > Would more laws and less personal freedom have changed the situation > > > described above? > > > > > > *Police wiretap powers would be expanded, and the utility of the FBI's > > > Carnivore surveillance system increased. Any U.S. attorney or state > > attorney > > > general could order the installation of the FBI's Carnivore > > Net-surveillance > > > system in emergency situations without obtaining a court order first. > > > > > > *Voicemail messages would be easier for law enforcement investigators to > > > obtain. A search warrant would be required, instead of a wiretap order > > that > > > brings with it a higher level of court scrutiny. > > > > > > *Wiretapping would become easier. Currently, police are required to > > perform > > > "normal investigative procedures" before tapping, a requirement that > would > > > no longer apply. > > > > > > *The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), a law that created a > > > secret court to approve spy investigations, would be broadened and made > > more > > > powerful. > > > > > > These same provisions have been pushed time and time again by special > > > interest groups and have never gotten past Congress. So the 'ATA' isn't > > some > > > Miracle Solution carefully crafted as a response to September 11th. It > is > > > just a slight rewording and rewriting of laws that various groups have > > tried > > > to get past Congress, and which have been shelved because they were > > > unconstitutional or would give Law Enforcement agencies too much power. > > > > > > And if you read the articles above, you might get the picture that > what's > > > needed is not less rights for people in America, but perhaps there needs > > to > > > be a shift in thinking from within these agencies themselves, starting > > with > > > the FAA. But sadly no one is putting any policies or plans before > congress > > > to deal with this. They are just trying to further their own political > and > > > moral agendas. > > > > > > I'm sure that the majority of Americans are not willing to buy into the > > hype > > > and have their minds so numbed by the tragedy of this event to allow > this > > or > > > any other government to bend and break the constitution that America was > > > founded on. > > > > > > Because if that happens brotherman then them terrorists win, > > > and heaven help the rest of the "Free Western World" that the majority > of > > us > > > live in, and which like it or not America and its way of life, leads. > > > > > > -Gel > > > > > > ---- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Pierre Demester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > There use to be a time - when everyone did what it took - to get the > job > > > > done. > > > > > > > > I personally believe people (in this Country) have lost focus with the > > > rest > > > > of the world... most of us believe America - is the world. > > > > > > > > Before September 11th - we cared more about the World Series... or > World > > > > Champions. Keeping in mind that world (again)... is within the borders > > of > > > > our own country. > > > > > > > > I seriously doubt the government will enter a persons' home - without > a > > > > reasonable amount of information leading to a potential arrest. > > > > > > > > If a case appears that the government did in fact - stretch the word > > > > "reasonable"... we will have to deal with that situation at that > time - > > > and > > > > immediately. > > > > > > > > Until then, if we have something that we are so concerned about - that > > we > > > > have to hide it... maybe they should look. > > > > > > > > I sincerely missed the days when hero's were real - and not someone > who > > > > could get paid a million dollars to hit a ball. They are not hero's - > > they > > > > are someone who we pay a million dollars to hit a frigg'n ball. > > > > > > > > The hero's in this event are the ones who risked their lives to save > > > others. > > > > > > > > The hero's of tomorrow - will be the ones who guide this great nation > > back > > > > to peace. > > > > > > > > The hero's of the future - will be the ones who keep us in peace... by > > > > always keeping an eye on the ones who want to take our peace away. > > > > > > > > Although by tragic circumstances - I'm glad the real hero's are back. > > > > > > > > Pierre > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
