Heinlein's work was, philosophically and literarily, a mixed bag. I've read, I believe, all his books and most of the short stories. His work has certainly had a strong influence on my upbringing and while I agree that some of his work had a strong libertarian bent. Jubal Harshaw will always be a hero of mine in many ways. He also took a strong authoritarian bent in other situations, witness Farnham's Freehold: "How do you know who is the officer in the lifeboat? The one with the gun."
More than anything else, I feel he gave a voice to being contrary, cantankerous, intelligent and unconstrained by social convention. Like good people should be, I think his views were complex, changing and occasionally even contradictory. Very much looking forward to reading my Podkayne of Mars soon. Cheers, Judah On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 7:11 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > I've read almost everything he's written, including non-fiction. I read > SST several times a year. I also feel that there should be non-military > service options available. Medical, police, fire and so forth. > > He was very much a libertarian, he hated the left and the reds like no > other. You should read his writings on his travels through the Soviet > Union. Really interesting stuff. > > Have you read the moon is a harsh mistress? Stranger in a strange land? > Lazarus Long and Methuselah's Children? > > Remember this is the man who said (paraphrasing) make whatever laws you > will, if I don't like them I will ignore them. I am a free man. > > I <3 Heinlein :) > > On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> The Anime series much closer to the book. About the only good thing >> about the movies were the full frontals of certain cast members. >> >> You need to read the book again Tim. It was not just military service >> that got your citizenship. It was any federal service for the same >> amount of time. And it was for anyone, if they were of age they could >> try for it one time and one time only. The ideal was that you deserved >> your citizenship by demonstrating that you were willing to serve. The >> service was quite broad from military service through risky >> experimental physics on Pluto to working in the Antarctic etc. >> >> Heinlein was never offering a libertarian utopia, his was a very >> conservative Middle America with a larger government involvement in >> the economy and still offering a fair degree of individual liberty. >> Crime was much more rigidly enforced with corporal punishments in >> public.Unions and guilds had a much larger impact on the society. >> There are a few paragraphs where Ricardo's father is complaining about >> union negotiations. The over all image I got of the society was sort >> of like late 19th century Missouri with spaceships. A conservative >> fantasy rather than a manifesto. >> >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 6:27 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Well as I've said I disagree with the libertarian plank in several areas. >> > Most notably immigration, free markets/fair markets and defense. >> > >> > I don't want conscription or a draft. Those programs were discriminatory >> > and corrupt. I just want to make it this for that. With rights come >> > responsibility. >> > >> > I don't think you should even have the vote if you don't serve. >> > >> > I like Heinlein's government in the NOVEL Starship Troopers. NOT the >> movie >> > where they turned them into Nazi clones haha. >> > >> > On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> So why have reluctant draftees. I'd rather be working with excellent >> >> soldiers who are there because they volunteered not slave soldiers. If >> >> anything Tim given your libertarian beliefs you should be totally >> >> against conscription. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 4:26 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > If what we want is to be the worlds police/expeditionary force than I >> >> would >> >> > agree with you. >> >> > >> >> > That however is not what I want for our future. I would prefer to >> see a >> >> > real defense force based on border protection and internal security, >> >> with a >> >> > small expeditionary force likely under the Department of State. >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Larry C. Lyons < >> [email protected] >> >> >wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> compared to what? the arabs surrounding them. >> >> >> >> >> >> Simple natural experiment look at the relative performances of the US >> >> >> army pre and post all volunteer doctrine. The all volunteer army in >> >> >> Iraq, especially the taking down of the Iraqi Army, has completely >> >> >> outperformed the draftee army of the Vietnam era. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 12:43 AM, Eric Roberts >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Not sure I agree with that. The Israeli army is pretty damn >> good... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> >> > Three Ravens Consulting >> >> >> > Eric Roberts >> >> >> > Owner/Developer >> >> >> > [email protected] >> >> >> > tel: 630-486-5255 >> >> >> > fax: 630-310-8531 >> >> >> > http://www.threeravensconsulting.com >> >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> >> > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[email protected]] >> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:35 AM >> >> >> > To: cf-community >> >> >> > Subject: Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under stress >> or >> >> >> > something? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Not sure whether that would work all that well. Up until recently >> the >> >> >> > volunteer military was nearly the best in the world. Conscript >> armies >> >> are >> >> >> > typically nowhere near that good. I think something like a National >> >> >> Service >> >> >> > would work better. Something similar to the Civilan Conservation >> Corps >> >> >> > during the 30's. But with a military option as well. If everyone is >> >> >> required >> >> >> > to serve in the military, how soon before everything else become >> >> >> militarized >> >> >> > and we are all servants of the military. Latin America of the 70's >> and >> >> >> 80's >> >> >> > showed how well that sort of arrangement worked. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Eric Roberts >> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I actually think that mandatory military service would solve a >> lot of >> >> >> >> issues. We take too much for granted. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Three Ravens Consulting >> >> >> >> Eric Roberts >> >> >> >> Owner/Developer >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> tel: 630-486-5255 >> >> >> >> fax: 630-310-8531 >> >> >> >> http://www.threeravensconsulting.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> >> From: Judah McAuley [mailto:[email protected]] >> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:22 PM >> >> >> >> To: cf-community >> >> >> >> Subject: Re: Shooting at Empire State building.People under >> stress or >> >> >> >> something? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Btw, I wouldn't have nearly the problem if we had a rigorous and >> >> >> >> continuous education system for firearms ownership and use. >> Something >> >> >> >> akin to a marshal arts training academy where you not only learn >> how >> >> >> >> to fight but when to fight, how to engage and (most importantly) >> how >> >> and >> >> >> > when to walk away. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It would also be different if we had a mandatory military service >> >> >> >> period, ala Israel, that required rigorous training in firearms >> >> safety >> >> >> >> and engagement. If we really want a commonly armed citizenry, we >> >> ought >> >> >> >> to do away with the volunteer military and establish a mandatory >> >> >> >> service period with appropriate training. I've gone back and >> forth of >> >> >> >> the wisdom of such an approach. It's something I'm still mulling >> over >> >> >> >> and can see the pros and cons of. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Judah >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:354166 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
