amen > And, FWIW I don't have a problem with people practising their religion > either, more power to ya!; and I appreciate the fact that you "don't > have any problem with people believing what they want to believe" that's > great, but there are those out there that *do* believe that it is their > business to get into my (and others') business. There are those that > *do* believe that they *must* do everything in their power to "save" me, > whether they find out I'm Catholic or not (but many times especially > *because* they did). > > > will > > Matthew Small wrote: > > >What I really get out of this is that non-Christians want Christians to: > >1) Not look at them as non-Christians > >2) Believe they are going to Heaven right along with Christians > >3) Ignore the Scripture as it has been taught throughout the ages in favor > >of a "feel-good, do what makes you happy" interpretation. > > > >Gosh, if the above is true, then what is religion for? > > > >"there are some (not all) sects of Christianity that believe that if you're > >not in the > > same sect/franchise/denomination/whatever (never mind whether or not > > you're a Christian) you're going to hell. 'course we can't fault them > > for their beliefs I suppose...guess they found the section of the bible > > they wanted to uphold..." > > > >So which parts of the Bible do you subscribe to that lets you go to Heaven > >without believing in God? > > > >Most of the world is religious to one extent or the other. Somebody > >somewhere has a different religion than mine and therefore I will go to > >their version of Hell when I die. That's fine with me. I'm not going to > >make them accept Jesus (although I believe they should). I'm not going to > >tell them that they need to pick a leader who doesn't support their core > >beliefs when that opportunity arises. I'm just going to practice my own > >faith, as you should practice yours or lack of faith and let them be. > > > >Like I said before, there is a distinct anti-Christian feel to this group, > >it comes up often, but not from other members of religious organizations, > >but from distictly non-religious people. > > > >I don't have any problem with people believing what they want to believe. > >Why do you? I'll practice my religion, you... do whatever. > > > >Matt Small > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "William H Bowen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:41 PM > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > >>>Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > >>> > >>> > >>outside > >> > of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > >>problem > >> > >>Oooo, and this brings up a personal favorite of mine...> > >>...nice... > >> > >>or how about those Christians that believe Catholics are going to hell, > >>too? Aren't Catholics Christians as well? > >> > >>will > >> > >>Matthew Small wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, maybe you do. > >>> > >>>Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > >>> > >>> > >outside > > > > > >>>of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > >>> > >>> > >problem > > > > > >>>is with this. Either you subscribe to the religion, or you don't. Those > >>>that do subscribe are forgiven and go to Heaven. Those that don't > >>> > >>> > >subscribe > > > > > >>>to the religion are not forgiven and go to Hell. There is no two ways > >>> > >>> > >about > > > > > >>>it, there's no "forgiveness because he's a good person at heart", no > >>>in-betweens, no exceptions. Obviously, there are people within the > >>> > >>> > >religion > > > > > >>>who commit bad sins, heinous crimes, hold grudges, hate others. > >>> > >>> > >Everybody > > > > > >>>points the finger at others for their crimes and sins and ask for > >>>retribution. Fortunately, Christians know to also look at themselves and > >>>ask for the forgiveness for their sins (including judgement of others) > >>> > >>> > >that > > > > > >>>Jesus Christ gave to us when He died on the cross, and we do try to live > >>> > >>> > >the > > > > > >>>right life. > >>> > >>>It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with the > >>> > >>> > >church > > > > > >>>is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, but don't forget the > >>> > >>> > >fact > > > > > >>>that the ultimate judgement comes from God, and either you're with Him or > >>>against Him. > >>> > >>>Matthew Small > >>> > >>> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM > >>>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the same. Most > >>>> > >>>> > >very > > > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been an integral > >>> > >>> > >part > > > > > >>>of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it is always the > >>> > >>> > >church > > > > > >>>elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, however, it is > >>> > >>> > >seldom > > > > > >>>the priests (at least not in my hearing). > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if they point their > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the LAW, then > >>> > >>> > >they > > > > > >>>should be willing to look at themselves at the same time, and see how > >>> > >>> > >their > > > > > >>>actions fall within their own rules. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" > >>>> > >>>> > >barrier. > > > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not allow the > >>>same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. The same action > >>> > >>> > >>>from one within their group is treated as a forgivable sin, but if done > >> > >> > >by > > > > > >>>someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately the barrier and > >>>reasons for it move from group to group, so most people can find a group > >>>just like them (as you say "personality is more like"). But the very > >>>existence of that kind of thinking is at odds with the basic teachings of > >>>all these churches, IMHO. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. It is about hate. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are great. > >>>Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is more than one > >>> > >>> > >church. > > > > > >>>People who think this guy is the worst thing to come along since the > >>>Inquisition have every right to their opinion. Heck, even those people > >>> > >>> > >who > > > > > >>>are calling in the death threats have the right to their opinion. Just > >>> > >>> > >not > > > > > >>>to act on it. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown that many of > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning variety. Many of > >>> > >>> > >them > > > > > >>>hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I find sad and a > >>>little bit funny. They don't see that their very actions are > >>> > >>> > >diametrically > > > > > >>>opposite of what they say they are fighting for. And they guy they are > >>>fighting against seems to be better at what they say they are fighting > >>> > >>> > >for > > > > > >>>than they are. Funny. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" > >>>> > >>>> > >category) > > > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only hating, but > >>> > >>> > >actual > > > > > >>>being proud of hating. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think its great. > >>>> > >>>> > >And > > > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Jerry Johnson > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>I would say that your church is in the minority, and that you don't go > >>>> > >>>> > >to > > > > > >>>>church enough, and that you need to find a church where you feel that > >>>> > >>>> > >your > > > > > >>>>personality is more like those of the congregation. > >>>> > >>>>I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't find most people > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>to > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect all of your > >>>>church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't so. If you > >>>>subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others do, just live > >>>> > >>>> > >the > > > > > >>>>right life yourself. > >>>> > >>>>Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers have to say in it's > >>>>entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about hate at all, it's about > >>>>different opinions than yours regarding some issues. Not to say that > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>there > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>is not hate, but it's mostly not. > >>>> > >>>>It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you think that most > >>>>Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their religion is > >>>>invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're blaming an entire religion > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>for > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that you don't > >>>> > >>>> > >know > > > > > >>>>the people that I go to church with. They are the nicest group of > >>>> > >>>> > >people > > > > > >>>>that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > >>>> > >>>>Matthew Small > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > >>>>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > >>>>> > >>>>>But I don't often go to Church. > >>>>> > >>>>>I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the Christian > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an insult.) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice it. And don't > >>>>> > >>>>> > >really > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. They tend to be > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>really > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they define it > >>>> > >>>> > >(and > > > > > >>>>there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different places) you are a > >>>> > >>>> > >bad, > > > > > >>>>bad person, and deserve all you get. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. Intellectually. It > >>>>doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. But I do get > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5
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