Brother, I feel your pain :) My daughter asked me recently why I wasn't Christian :) I had a long talk one day in East Texas with a really really nice lady -- if a bit limited -- who was convinced I was goign to go to hell because I was Catholic and did not want to attend her Baptist church :)
Dana William H Bowen writes: > > Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > outside > > of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > problem > > Oooo, and this brings up a personal favorite of mine...there are some > (not all) sects of Christianity that believe that if you're not in the > same sect/franchise/denomination/whatever (never mind whether or not > you're a Christian) you're going to hell. 'course we can't fault them > for their beliefs I suppose...guess they found the section of the bible > they wanted to uphold... > > ...nice... > > or how about those Christians that believe Catholics are going to hell, > too? Aren't Catholics Christians as well? > > will > > Matthew Small wrote: > > >It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, maybe you do. > > > >Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're outside > >of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the problem > >is with this. Either you subscribe to the religion, or you don't. Those > >that do subscribe are forgiven and go to Heaven. Those that don't subscribe > >to the religion are not forgiven and go to Hell. There is no two ways about > >it, there's no "forgiveness because he's a good person at heart", no > >in-betweens, no exceptions. Obviously, there are people within the religion > >who commit bad sins, heinous crimes, hold grudges, hate others. Everybody > >points the finger at others for their crimes and sins and ask for > >retribution. Fortunately, Christians know to also look at themselves and > >ask for the forgiveness for their sins (including judgement of others) that > >Jesus Christ gave to us when He died on the cross, and we do try to live the > >right life. > > > >It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with the church > >is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, but don't forget the fact > >that the ultimate judgement comes from God, and either you're with Him or > >against Him. > > > >Matthew Small > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > >>I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the same. Most very > >> > >> > >nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been an integral part > >of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it is always the church > >elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, however, it is seldom > >the priests (at least not in my hearing). > > > > > >>I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if they point their > >> > >> > >finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the LAW, then they > >should be willing to look at themselves at the same time, and see how their > >actions fall within their own rules. > > > > > >>Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" barrier. > >> > >> > >They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not allow the > >same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. The same action > >from one within their group is treated as a forgivable sin, but if done by > >someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately the barrier and > >reasons for it move from group to group, so most people can find a group > >just like them (as you say "personality is more like"). But the very > >existence of that kind of thinking is at odds with the basic teachings of > >all these churches, IMHO. > > > > > >>You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. It is about hate. > >> > >> > >Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are great. > >Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is more than one church. > >People who think this guy is the worst thing to come along since the > >Inquisition have every right to their opinion. Heck, even those people who > >are calling in the death threats have the right to their opinion. Just not > >to act on it. > > > > > >>The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown that many of > >> > >> > >those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning variety. Many of them > >hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I find sad and a > >little bit funny. They don't see that their very actions are diametrically > >opposite of what they say they are fighting for. And they guy they are > >fighting against seems to be better at what they say they are fighting for > >than they are. Funny. > > > > > >>I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" category) > >> > >> > >are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only hating, but actual > >being proud of hating. > > > > > >>I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think its great. And > >> > >> > >I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > > > > > >>Jerry Johnson > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>I would say that your church is in the minority, and that you don't go to > >>church enough, and that you need to find a church where you feel that your > >>personality is more like those of the congregation. > >> > >>I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't find most people > >> > >> > >to > > > > > >>be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect all of your > >>church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't so. If you > >>subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others do, just live the > >>right life yourself. > >> > >>Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers have to say in it's > >>entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about hate at all, it's about > >>different opinions than yours regarding some issues. Not to say that > >> > >> > >there > > > > > >>is not hate, but it's mostly not. > >> > >>It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you think that most > >>Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their religion is > >>invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're blaming an entire religion > >> > >> > >for > > > > > >>the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that you don't know > >>the people that I go to church with. They are the nicest group of people > >>that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > >> > >>Matthew Small > >> > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > >>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > >>> > >>>But I don't often go to Church. > >>> > >>>I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the Christian > >>> > >>> > >>religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an insult.) > >> > >> > >>>They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice it. And don't really > >>> > >>> > >>try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. They tend to be > >> > >> > >really > > > > > >>good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they define it (and > >>there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different places) you are a bad, > >>bad person, and deserve all you get. > >> > >> > >>>As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > >>> > >>> > >>congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. Intellectually. It > >>doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. But I do get > >> > >> > >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
