That�s interesting, I didn't know that about Catholics. It does sound like something designed to tie up loose ends though, I agree with you that if there is a God then they are probably a lot more forgiving and tolerant than some of their followers on earth.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 07 August 2003 02:51 > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > Catholics believe that anyone who has never heard of Jesus > goes to Limbo. Which is supposed to be an okay, reasonably > pleasant place, except that you dont get to rejoice in the > presence of the Lord, etc. Same thing for young children who > have never received the sacrament of communion. > > I myself view this as a sort of rationalization.... I think > God worries a lot less about these sorts of labels than the > people who made them up do :) > > Dana > > Wayne Putterill writes: > > > What about people who have been raised in a different > religion? Or the > > people in this world who have never even heard of Jesus - > do they go > > to hell? > > > > If the answer is yes, then that�s the fundamental flaw in > > Christianity, I could never believe in a God who acts in such an > > unfair manner. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: William H Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 06 August 2003 19:42 > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if > > > you're > > > outside > > > > of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't > understand what the > > > problem > > > > > > Oooo, and this brings up a personal favorite of mine...there are > > > some > > > (not all) sects of Christianity that believe that if you're > > > not in the > > > same sect/franchise/denomination/whatever (never mind > whether or not > > > you're a Christian) you're going to hell. 'course we > can't fault them > > > for their beliefs I suppose...guess they found the section of > > > the bible > > > they wanted to uphold... > > > > > > ...nice... > > > > > > or how about those Christians that believe Catholics are > > > going to hell, > > > too? Aren't Catholics Christians as well? > > > > > > will > > > > > > Matthew Small wrote: > > > > > > >It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, > maybe you do. > > > > > > > >Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that > if you're > > > >outside of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't > > > understand what > > > >the problem is with this. Either you subscribe to the > > > religion, or you > > > >don't. Those that do subscribe are forgiven and go to > > > Heaven. Those > > > >that don't subscribe to the religion are not forgiven and go > > > to Hell. > > > >There is no two ways about it, there's no "forgiveness > > > because he's a > > > >good person at heart", no in-betweens, no exceptions. > > > Obviously, there > > > >are people within the religion who commit bad sins, > heinous crimes, > > > >hold grudges, hate others. Everybody points the finger at > > > others for > > > >their crimes and sins and ask for retribution. Fortunately, > > > Christians > > > >know to also look at themselves and ask for the forgiveness > > > for their > > > >sins (including judgement of others) that Jesus Christ gave > > > to us when > > > >He died on the cross, and we do try to live the right life. > > > > > > > >It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with > > > >the > > > >church is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, > but don't > > > >forget the fact that the ultimate judgement comes from God, > > > and either > > > >you're with Him or against Him. > > > > > > > >Matthew Small > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM > > > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the > > > same. Most > > > >>very > > > >> > > > >> > > > >nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been > > > an integral > > > >part of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it > > > is always > > > >the church elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, > > > >however, it is seldom the priests (at least not in my hearing). > > > > > > > > > > > >>I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if > they point > > > >>their > > > >> > > > >> > > > >finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the > > > LAW, then > > > >they should be willing to look at themselves at the same > > > time, and see > > > >how their actions fall within their own rules. > > > > > > > > > > > >>Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" > > > >>barrier. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not > > > >allow > > > >the same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. > > > The same > > > >action from one within their group is treated as a > > > forgivable sin, but > > > >if done by someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately > > > >the > > > >barrier and reasons for it move from group to group, so most > > > people can > > > >find a group just like them (as you say "personality is more > > > >like"). > > > >But the very existence of that kind of thinking is at > odds with the > > > >basic teachings of all these churches, IMHO. > > > > > > > > > > > >>You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. > It is about > > > >>hate. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are > > > >great. Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is > > > more than > > > >one church. People who think this guy is the worst thing to > > > come along > > > >since the Inquisition have every right to their opinion. > Heck, even > > > >those people who are calling in the death threats have > the right to > > > >their opinion. Just not to act on it. > > > > > > > > > > > >>The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown > > > that many of > > > >> > > > >> > > > >those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning > > > variety. Many of > > > >them hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I > > > >find > > > >sad and a little bit funny. They don't see that their very > > > actions are > > > >diametrically opposite of what they say they are fighting > > > for. And they > > > >guy they are fighting against seems to be better at what > > > they say they > > > >are fighting for than they are. Funny. > > > > > > > > > > > >>I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" > > > >>category) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only > > > hating, but > > > >actual being proud of hating. > > > > > > > > > > > >>I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think > > > its great. > > > >>And > > > >> > > > >> > > > >I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > > > > > > > > > > > >>Jerry Johnson > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>I would say that your church is in the minority, and that > > > you don't go > > > >>to church enough, and that you need to find a church where you > > > >>feel > > > >>that your personality is more like those of the congregation. > > > >> > > > >>I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't > find most > > > >>people > > > >> > > > >> > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > >>be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect > > > all of your > > > >>church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't > > > so. If you > > > >>subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others > > > do, just live > > > >>the right life yourself. > > > >> > > > >>Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers > have to say in > > > >>it's entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about > hate at all, > > > >>it's about different opinions than yours regarding some > > > issues. Not > > > >>to say that > > > >> > > > >> > > > >there > > > > > > > > > > > >>is not hate, but it's mostly not. > > > >> > > > >>It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you > think that > > > >>most Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their > > > >>religion is invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're > > > blaming an > > > >>entire religion > > > >> > > > >> > > > >for > > > > > > > > > > > >>the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that > > > you don't > > > >>know the people that I go to church with. They are the > > > nicest group > > > >>of people that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > > > >> > > > >>Matthew Small > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > > >>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > > > >>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > > > >>> > > > >>>But I don't often go to Church. > > > >>> > > > >>>I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the > > > Christian > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an > > > >>insult.) > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice > it. And don't > > > >>>really > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. > They tend to > > > >>be > > > >> > > > >> > > > >really > > > > > > > > > > > >>good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they > > > define it > > > >>(and there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different > > > places) you > > > >>are a bad, bad person, and deserve all you get. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. > > > Intellectually. It > > > >>doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. > > > But I do get > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. 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