What about people who have been raised in a different religion? Or the people in this world who have never even heard of Jesus - do they go to hell?
If the answer is yes, then that�s the fundamental flaw in Christianity, I could never believe in a God who acts in such an unfair manner. > -----Original Message----- > From: William H Bowen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 06 August 2003 19:42 > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > outside > > of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > problem > > Oooo, and this brings up a personal favorite of mine...there are some > (not all) sects of Christianity that believe that if you're > not in the > same sect/franchise/denomination/whatever (never mind whether or not > you're a Christian) you're going to hell. 'course we can't fault them > for their beliefs I suppose...guess they found the section of > the bible > they wanted to uphold... > > ...nice... > > or how about those Christians that believe Catholics are > going to hell, > too? Aren't Catholics Christians as well? > > will > > Matthew Small wrote: > > >It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, maybe you do. > > > >Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > >outside of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't > understand what > >the problem is with this. Either you subscribe to the > religion, or you > >don't. Those that do subscribe are forgiven and go to > Heaven. Those > >that don't subscribe to the religion are not forgiven and go > to Hell. > >There is no two ways about it, there's no "forgiveness > because he's a > >good person at heart", no in-betweens, no exceptions. > Obviously, there > >are people within the religion who commit bad sins, heinous crimes, > >hold grudges, hate others. Everybody points the finger at > others for > >their crimes and sins and ask for retribution. Fortunately, > Christians > >know to also look at themselves and ask for the forgiveness > for their > >sins (including judgement of others) that Jesus Christ gave > to us when > >He died on the cross, and we do try to live the right life. > > > >It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with the > >church is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, but don't > >forget the fact that the ultimate judgement comes from God, > and either > >you're with Him or against Him. > > > >Matthew Small > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > >>I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the > same. Most > >>very > >> > >> > >nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been > an integral > >part of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it > is always > >the church elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, > >however, it is seldom the priests (at least not in my hearing). > > > > > >>I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if they point > >>their > >> > >> > >finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the > LAW, then > >they should be willing to look at themselves at the same > time, and see > >how their actions fall within their own rules. > > > > > >>Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" > >>barrier. > >> > >> > >They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not allow > >the same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. > The same > >action from one within their group is treated as a > forgivable sin, but > >if done by someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately the > >barrier and reasons for it move from group to group, so most > people can > >find a group just like them (as you say "personality is more like"). > >But the very existence of that kind of thinking is at odds with the > >basic teachings of all these churches, IMHO. > > > > > >>You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. It is about > >>hate. > >> > >> > >Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are > >great. Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is > more than > >one church. People who think this guy is the worst thing to > come along > >since the Inquisition have every right to their opinion. Heck, even > >those people who are calling in the death threats have the right to > >their opinion. Just not to act on it. > > > > > >>The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown > that many of > >> > >> > >those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning > variety. Many of > >them hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I find > >sad and a little bit funny. They don't see that their very > actions are > >diametrically opposite of what they say they are fighting > for. And they > >guy they are fighting against seems to be better at what > they say they > >are fighting for than they are. Funny. > > > > > >>I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" > >>category) > >> > >> > >are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only > hating, but > >actual being proud of hating. > > > > > >>I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think > its great. > >>And > >> > >> > >I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > > > > > >>Jerry Johnson > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>I would say that your church is in the minority, and that > you don't go > >>to church enough, and that you need to find a church where you feel > >>that your personality is more like those of the congregation. > >> > >>I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't find most > >>people > >> > >> > >to > > > > > >>be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect > all of your > >>church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't > so. If you > >>subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others > do, just live > >>the right life yourself. > >> > >>Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers have to say in > >>it's entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about hate at all, > >>it's about different opinions than yours regarding some > issues. Not > >>to say that > >> > >> > >there > > > > > >>is not hate, but it's mostly not. > >> > >>It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you think that > >>most Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their > >>religion is invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're > blaming an > >>entire religion > >> > >> > >for > > > > > >>the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that > you don't > >>know the people that I go to church with. They are the > nicest group > >>of people that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > >> > >>Matthew Small > >> > >> > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > >>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > >>> > >>>But I don't often go to Church. > >>> > >>>I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the > Christian > >>> > >>> > >>religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an insult.) > >> > >> > >>>They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice it. And don't > >>>really > >>> > >>> > >>try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. They tend to be > >> > >> > >really > > > > > >>good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they > define it > >>(and there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different > places) you > >>are a bad, bad person, and deserve all you get. > >> > >> > >>>As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > >>> > >>> > >>congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. > Intellectually. It > >>doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. > But I do get > >> > >> > >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
