Maybe I should add, Matt, that all the solutions I add on this page are
new solutions. The other solutions that people are trying to put into
this page have been in public for two years and more. If there is not a
place to present these new ideas without having to cover the old ones,
then don't you think that will systematically stiffle new ideas? I
don't want to write a manual as if I were working at $soft.
Michael McGrady
Matt Bathje wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't step in the middle of this...but I'm (stupidly?)
going to.
As both of you have agreed, (and is in fact the case) a Wiki is about
the sharing of ideas and collaboration.
The problem as I see it is that you have the page set up in a manner
that cannot be changed or added to easily. By formatting the page in
the way you have, it inherently disallows alternate viewpoints. The
page is also unwieldy and hard to follow, and was so before Niall made
his changes.
Might I suggest a major overhaul to the layout of the page, making
better use of the wiki format. The suggestions are:
Change the name of the link from "Five Multiple Button Solutions" to
something like "Multiple Submit Buttons on One Form Solutions". Yes it
is longer, but it implies a much better meaning than the current
title. It also doesn't limit the page to be about the 5 solutions 1
person has chosen as acceptable.
Instead of having all possible solutions on one page with a weird
table of contents, use the wiki format. Have
"MultipleSubmitButtonsOnOneFormSolutions" be a short page of mostly
links to new wiki pages. Each of these pages will contain 1 possible
solution. On this new "table of contents" page, put a short
description of the solution by its link.
Have some introduction to the problem on the "table of contents" page.
The one presented currently is not helpful to a struts newbie.
Make one of the links mentioned above be all about DispatchAction and
its kin. Or don't, perhaps somebody else will...but if you follow a
format like I am suggesting, all alternatives can be easily presented
without affecting the "look" of the individual solutions. In the
comments section of the main page, people can express their views on
which is their favorite/most hated solution :)
Possibly add a pros/cons section to each solution so you can tell
people what is wrong with DispatchAction, and why they might try other
solutions.
Assuming I explained this well enough, I think it would solve most of
the problems we are seeing.
Matt
Michael McGrady wrote:
The only reference to you, Niall, so far as I remember, was to credit
your work as yours. I did not want my name associated with those
thoughts. I have credited others on the page. I did not laud you,
because you are trying to include ideas I am explicitly trying to
critique and to surpass.
I don't see any personal attacks on you, nor do I feel antagonistic
in any way towards you. I am not going to get into the personal
attacks thing more than I have.
I would like to be able to present some ideas coherently. Your grasp
of this particular area on Struts seems to me to be suspect and you
seem to have no sense of the look and feel of this wiki page.
I am very interested in a debate of any kind on these things. But,
you and I will have to separate our ideas on this. Yours are, simply
put, the ones I jettisoned some time ago, so they hardly will fit in
the center of any presentation of what I am thinking.
Why not put up your own page on those solutions instead of trying to
inject them into a page that explicitly is rejecting them? I simply
am trying to keep this space clean as it is a very complex page.
Your efforts just muddy it up in sense and look. We have a different
approach on this and are not likely to see things the same. That is
of no concern to me. But, cleaning up this wiki after you on a
constant basis is too much for me.
The wiki is certainly for collaborative efforts, but not all on one
page? I also must state that it is clear that we have no
collaboration on this point. You adapt the ImageButtonBean approach
and I used and rejected that. I am presenting a series of new
approaches.
You continue to put the old approach right in the middle of the
wiki. That is not collaboration. We are not going to collaborate
here. We disagree, apparently. That is okay. Part of the wiki is
presenting alternative ideas, I would think. Why won't you let me do
that in peace?
Is there no place to present alternative solutions to what you like,
without you putting in what you like in those places? That is the
difficulty.
I appreciate all you have done and I appreciate the ImageButtonBean
solution too, although I am certain it is outmoded and vastly
inferior. Like I said, I have no animosity towards you. All I am is
upset at having to clean up the messes. Hopefully this will be a new
day. I don't want to get too huffed up about your changes, or the
wiki will be nuked.
Michael McGrady
Niall Pemberton wrote:
OK Contact me off list if you wish, however....
I respected what you requested in the "FiveMultipleButtonsSolution"
wiki
page and all I did was add two links which were related to the
subject - I
added no opinions, just the links which is what you suggested people
should
do. You then added opinions on that page (seems to me you should
have put
them on the comments page you set up and asked others to use?) and
you also
put references to me all over the page. I was not happy with you making
reference to me so last night I went through removing all those
references.
If you hadn't put my name all over that page then the only thing I
would
have changed was adding the two links to alternatives.
The whole idea of a wiki is a collaborative effort - but you seem to
want
your own personal space which no-one else should touch, maybe if
thats the
case then you should go put it on your own blog and just provide a
link to
it directly from the wiki. If you do, please though, don't include any
reference to me - just tell people what your opnions are.
I also don't understand why you constantly resort to personal
attacks on
me - I haven't done that to you. For example in this message why do
you say
"without much knowledge of this area" - whether its true or not, its
unecessary and rude.
Niall
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael McGrady"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Struts Wiki Etiquette: Niall's Help
I am trying to make the wiki on multiple buttons readable, despite
being
detailed and long. I have had to spend quite a bit of time doing that
because Niall comes behind me and changes things in ways that
effectively confuses the issue.
I would contact him directly on this, but he has asked me to not do
that.
You added solutions which I was trying to avoid, Niall, to the wiki.
Then, in order not to confuse the reader, I added small critiques
of the
links you provided. Now you have moved the critiques to places where
they make no sense and have altered my words similarly.
Is there any sense to this or am I completely captured by Niall's
status
and incapable of making this wiki remain readable? If there is no way
to keep this wiki safe from Niall, I would rather remove it altogether
and just provide a link to a place he cannot rearrange at his whim and
without much knowledge of this area.
Michael McGrady
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