Sorry, it wasn't meant to be cherry-picked, but I focused on spaces I've been to or talk to. VHS was thrown in as it was easy to find online.
But we don't actually need to know if the majority of hacker spaces use this model to be "allowed" to implement it if we want to. It's sufficient to know that some do, and are available to contact if we have questions about it. All this "proves" is that multi-tier membership pricing may have some merit. The people I spoke to felt that money received from reduced rate memberships was money they would not have received, if they had only had a single, higher membership rate, and I think this sounds reasonable. For one thing, it allows people who can't afford the full rate to participate and be members, instead of always a guest. There may be no difference in access, but the psychological difference is significant. On Oct 15, 2012 4:36 PM, "Jay Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: > I appreciate the information, but when it comes to decision making like > this, a cherry-picked data-set is worse then no data. I'd really like a > proper set of statistics to work with. > > There is one thing I do find interesting though. It looks as though the > $10 reduced-rate members in Alberta have the same rights as our free guests > here in Winnipeg. > > On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I've been chatting with members of the hackerspaces in Calgary and >> Edmonton (Protospace and ENTs), and they both have the reduced fees. Both >> of their regular rates are $50/month and their reduced rate is $10/month. >> >> Neither of them restrict it to students, but the reduced rate does not >> give the member a key, storage space, or a vote at meetings. They are >> restricted to coming to the space when someone with a key is already there, >> and aren't authorized to use some tools/equipment. >> >> Calgary also offers a student membership at $30/month which requires >> proof of student status, and gives them a shelf and a vote. >> >> >> Both Calgary and Edmonton offer a reduced rate (1 or 2 months free) if >> you pre-pay for an entire year. >> >> >> >> The Baltimore Node does not offer a general reduced rate, but offers >> reduced membership rates to additional members of a household, and reduced >> memberships on a case by case basis. >> >> The Harford Hackerspace has multiple membership levels, which appear to >> range from $85/month down, depending on category (regular member, charter >> member, student, etc.), but their wiki has no other specific valued >> mentioned. >> >> VHS (in Vancouver) offers 3 price points - $50 (regular member), $25 >> (voting, no key), $10 (no key, no vote). >> >> >> >> This isn't a random sampling, really, but I've been to 2 of the three >> spaces, and talked on irc to a third. >> >> >> I think our members are honest enough that they will pay full rate or >> more if they can afford it, and won't downgrade to a reduced fee unless >> they have to. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Totalitarian Treasurer checking in. >>> >>> Reduction for non-student/cash-strapped members: >>> I will not support a membership fee reduction for non-students. We are >>> already strapped for cash and we are not in the business of becoming a >>> hostel. Non-student members who can not pay $40.00/month will be given two >>> weeks warning to pay their dues or have their memberships and access >>> revoked. I do follow the hackerspace patterns as close as possible and the >>> line about being a "Totalitarian Treasurer" is near and dear to what was >>> once my heart :-) >>> >>> If you are unable to pay fees, your best bet is to cancel your >>> membership until such a time that you can pay. You're always welcome to >>> reapply when you are able. >>> >>> Student Memberships: >>> I have no strong opinion on the idea of student memberships. It's not >>> much extra work and it does seem to be an accepted practice for most >>> hacker-spaces I've looked into. If anybody can compile a current collection >>> of fee structures from across Canada and the US for tomorrow's meeting, it >>> would make for great research. I'm particularly interested in seeing: >>> >>> - % of hackerspaces with student membership options >>> - Average student membership cost >>> - Average full membership cost for all hackerspaces >>> - Average full membership cost for hackerspaces that offer student >>> discounts >>> - Average full membership cost for hackerspaces that do no offer student >>> discounts >>> >>> I'd do it myself, but I have to admit that I simply don't have time to >>> compile even more data tonight. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>> >>>> I think that's great advice. >>>> >>>> I've tried to follow the design patterns from hackerspaces.org as often >>>> as it's possible and as often as it makes sense for us. It doesn't >>>> always make sense, of course, but more often than not they're pretty >>>> good. >>>> >>>> I'm not saying we should make policy decisions based entirely on the >>>> pattern, just that if the patterns say it's a good idea, it might >>>> actually be a good idea. >>>> >>>> Ron >>>> >>>> On 2012-10-15 14:38, Justin Lacko wrote: >>>> > And FWIW the hackerspaces.org model has a few things that operate on >>>> > the "paranoia" such as this one: >>>> > http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Sponsoring_Anti-Pattern so I >>>> wouldn't >>>> > take that site as gospel. But what do I know? >>>> > >>>> > On 15 October 2012 14:35, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > > What kind of reduction are we looking at here? Is, say $10 a month >>>> > > really the deciding factor for anybody for not becoming a member? >>>> > > >>>> > > I think $40 is already as cheap as we can go. If anything I'd say >>>> make >>>> > > $40 the student rate and re-jigger (Mak's word) the regular member >>>> > > rate. $40 is incredibly cheap for ~4200 sq. ft. of 24/7 access to a >>>> > > space with tools, computers, a lounge, a budding arcade, and >>>> > > developing electrical. >>>> > > >>>> > > On 15 October 2012 14:28, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> > >> Hash: SHA1 >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Hey guys, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I'm forwarding along a suggestion from David Stewart, who's not >>>> > >> currently a member but is interested in SkullSpace. Based on what >>>> he >>>> > >> says, and some reading I've done, I think we should re-visit the >>>> idea of >>>> > >> student memberships. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I was traditionally against it, but I'm starting to come around. It >>>> > >> helps that I re-read the hackerspace design patterns and it >>>> includes >>>> > >> this one: http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Membership_Fees_Pattern >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Which includes the text, "Collect fees regularly. Make no >>>> exceptions, >>>> > >> ever. Choose an appropriate amount. Have discounts for students. >>>> Have at >>>> > >> least three months of rent on your account, all the time, no >>>> exceptions. >>>> > >> Elect a totalitarian treasurer." >>>> > >> >>>> > >> The issues I've had in the past with it - keeping everybody equal, >>>> etc - >>>> > >> I think we can set aside for the purposes of getting more members >>>> / more >>>> > >> interest / more events / etc. Another issue was how we manage it - >>>> and I >>>> > >> think honour system is fine. If you're going to school full-time, >>>> and >>>> > >> you tell us you are, that's good enough. If we don't believe you, >>>> then >>>> > >> you probably shouldn't be a member anwyays. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> It would create extra work for Jay - to switch members from >>>> student to >>>> > >> regular when necessary - so he definitely has a say in this. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Students could, of course, choose to pay the full amount, if they'd >>>> > >> like. :) >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Thoughts? >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Ron >>>> > >> >>>> > >> - ----- Forwarded message from David Stewart < >>>> [email protected]> ----- >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:15:37 -0500 >>>> > >> From: David Stewart <[email protected]> >>>> > >> To: [email protected] >>>> > >> Subject: Skullspace student/casual memberships >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Hello Ron, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Over the past year I have sporadically attended various events >>>> at >>>> > >> Skullspace (Most notably Mak's C course) and while I would like to >>>> become a >>>> > >> full member, there has always been a few things that have held me >>>> back >>>> > >> (mostly due to lack of time). Compounding my existing lack of >>>> time problem >>>> > >> is that since have I started school full time at the U of M, the >>>> amount of >>>> > >> free time I have has taken a dive off a cliff. Furthermore, being >>>> a full >>>> > >> time student, has rendered me more or less broke. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I would like to contribute to the success of Skullspace, but >>>> $40 a >>>> > >> month is beyond my reach financially for now, and quite frankly >>>> with my >>>> > >> dwindling free time I could hardly spend any time at all at the >>>> space >>>> > >> anyways. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I'm sure you see where I am going with this, but I will ask the >>>> > >> question directly.... Has there ever been discussion about >>>> memberships for >>>> > >> student/casual members? - Perhaps key less if need be, and/or >>>> based on >>>> > >> hours at the space per month, non-voting (or 1/2 of a vote), >>>> without a >>>> > >> dedicated storage spot etc. ? I realize that this has the >>>> potential to be >>>> > >> a slippery slope of "special treatment", but could a fair system >>>> be hashed >>>> > >> out? To me it seems that this could help to open up membership to >>>> a wider >>>> > >> audience and increase the amount of membership dues collected each >>>> month >>>> > >> without causing a significant increase in operating >>>> > >> costs.......Additionally, this could help to make Skullspace a more >>>> > >> inclusive community. (Not that it is particularly exclusionary at >>>> the >>>> > >> moment!) >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Anyways it's just a thought, I'll leave it to you and the >>>> Skullspace group >>>> > >> to make the decisions on this, but feel free to ask me questions >>>> and I'll >>>> > >> do my best to get back to you asap. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Regards, >>>> > >> >>>> > >> David Stewart >>>> > >> >>>> > >> - ----- End forwarded message ----- >>>> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> > >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>> > >> >>>> > >> iEYEARECAAYFAlB8Y94ACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QmTQCg3asSucA+sQ7tmhyg3OZmEgDn >>>> > >> P+oAn0uoAcEd3CF8plbHAAwB5h0jbcPe >>>> > >> =ju56 >>>> > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>>> > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> > >> Archive: >>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>> >>>> iEYEARECAAYFAlB8aFcACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/RJrwCfTVP2eHyTJhtiVwU4FWP9N8hG >>>> NBkAoM+pqgnRJ/mUuifs1/fMztlSTq7V >>>> =iGqa >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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