> > The people I spoke to felt that money received from reduced rate > memberships was money they would not have received, if they had only had a > single, higher membership rate, and I think this sounds reasonable. >
This times 1000, I think we are better chasing partial members and dealing with them than simply denying them outright. Having multiple levels of members will need to be monitored and handled by someone, I can do it if no one else is up to the task. G Mike On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry, it wasn't meant to be cherry-picked, but I focused on spaces I've > been to or talk to. VHS was thrown in as it was easy to find online. > > But we don't actually need to know if the majority of hacker spaces use > this model to be "allowed" to implement it if we want to. It's sufficient > to know that some do, and are available to contact if we have questions > about it. All this "proves" is that multi-tier membership pricing may have > some merit. > > The people I spoke to felt that money received from reduced rate > memberships was money they would not have received, if they had only had a > single, higher membership rate, and I think this sounds reasonable. > > For one thing, it allows people who can't afford the full rate to > participate and be members, instead of always a guest. There may be no > difference in access, but the psychological difference is significant. > On Oct 15, 2012 4:36 PM, "Jay Smith" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I appreciate the information, but when it comes to decision making like >> this, a cherry-picked data-set is worse then no data. I'd really like a >> proper set of statistics to work with. >> >> There is one thing I do find interesting though. It looks as though the >> $10 reduced-rate members in Alberta have the same rights as our free guests >> here in Winnipeg. >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I've been chatting with members of the hackerspaces in Calgary and >>> Edmonton (Protospace and ENTs), and they both have the reduced fees. Both >>> of their regular rates are $50/month and their reduced rate is $10/month. >>> >>> Neither of them restrict it to students, but the reduced rate does not >>> give the member a key, storage space, or a vote at meetings. They are >>> restricted to coming to the space when someone with a key is already there, >>> and aren't authorized to use some tools/equipment. >>> >>> Calgary also offers a student membership at $30/month which requires >>> proof of student status, and gives them a shelf and a vote. >>> >>> >>> Both Calgary and Edmonton offer a reduced rate (1 or 2 months free) if >>> you pre-pay for an entire year. >>> >>> >>> >>> The Baltimore Node does not offer a general reduced rate, but offers >>> reduced membership rates to additional members of a household, and reduced >>> memberships on a case by case basis. >>> >>> The Harford Hackerspace has multiple membership levels, which appear to >>> range from $85/month down, depending on category (regular member, charter >>> member, student, etc.), but their wiki has no other specific valued >>> mentioned. >>> >>> VHS (in Vancouver) offers 3 price points - $50 (regular member), $25 >>> (voting, no key), $10 (no key, no vote). >>> >>> >>> >>> This isn't a random sampling, really, but I've been to 2 of the three >>> spaces, and talked on irc to a third. >>> >>> >>> I think our members are honest enough that they will pay full rate or >>> more if they can afford it, and won't downgrade to a reduced fee unless >>> they have to. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Totalitarian Treasurer checking in. >>>> >>>> Reduction for non-student/cash-strapped members: >>>> I will not support a membership fee reduction for non-students. We are >>>> already strapped for cash and we are not in the business of becoming a >>>> hostel. Non-student members who can not pay $40.00/month will be given two >>>> weeks warning to pay their dues or have their memberships and access >>>> revoked. I do follow the hackerspace patterns as close as possible and the >>>> line about being a "Totalitarian Treasurer" is near and dear to what was >>>> once my heart :-) >>>> >>>> If you are unable to pay fees, your best bet is to cancel your >>>> membership until such a time that you can pay. You're always welcome to >>>> reapply when you are able. >>>> >>>> Student Memberships: >>>> I have no strong opinion on the idea of student memberships. It's not >>>> much extra work and it does seem to be an accepted practice for most >>>> hacker-spaces I've looked into. If anybody can compile a current collection >>>> of fee structures from across Canada and the US for tomorrow's meeting, it >>>> would make for great research. I'm particularly interested in seeing: >>>> >>>> - % of hackerspaces with student membership options >>>> - Average student membership cost >>>> - Average full membership cost for all hackerspaces >>>> - Average full membership cost for hackerspaces that offer student >>>> discounts >>>> - Average full membership cost for hackerspaces that do no offer >>>> student discounts >>>> >>>> I'd do it myself, but I have to admit that I simply don't have time to >>>> compile even more data tonight. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> >>>>> I think that's great advice. >>>>> >>>>> I've tried to follow the design patterns from hackerspaces.org as >>>>> often >>>>> as it's possible and as often as it makes sense for us. It doesn't >>>>> always make sense, of course, but more often than not they're pretty >>>>> good. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not saying we should make policy decisions based entirely on the >>>>> pattern, just that if the patterns say it's a good idea, it might >>>>> actually be a good idea. >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>> On 2012-10-15 14:38, Justin Lacko wrote: >>>>> > And FWIW the hackerspaces.org model has a few things that operate on >>>>> > the "paranoia" such as this one: >>>>> > http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Sponsoring_Anti-Pattern so I >>>>> wouldn't >>>>> > take that site as gospel. But what do I know? >>>>> > >>>>> > On 15 October 2012 14:35, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > > What kind of reduction are we looking at here? Is, say $10 a month >>>>> > > really the deciding factor for anybody for not becoming a member? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > I think $40 is already as cheap as we can go. If anything I'd say >>>>> make >>>>> > > $40 the student rate and re-jigger (Mak's word) the regular member >>>>> > > rate. $40 is incredibly cheap for ~4200 sq. ft. of 24/7 access to a >>>>> > > space with tools, computers, a lounge, a budding arcade, and >>>>> > > developing electrical. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On 15 October 2012 14:28, Ron <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> > >> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Hey guys, >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I'm forwarding along a suggestion from David Stewart, who's not >>>>> > >> currently a member but is interested in SkullSpace. Based on what >>>>> he >>>>> > >> says, and some reading I've done, I think we should re-visit the >>>>> idea of >>>>> > >> student memberships. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I was traditionally against it, but I'm starting to come around. >>>>> It >>>>> > >> helps that I re-read the hackerspace design patterns and it >>>>> includes >>>>> > >> this one: >>>>> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Membership_Fees_Pattern >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Which includes the text, "Collect fees regularly. Make no >>>>> exceptions, >>>>> > >> ever. Choose an appropriate amount. Have discounts for students. >>>>> Have at >>>>> > >> least three months of rent on your account, all the time, no >>>>> exceptions. >>>>> > >> Elect a totalitarian treasurer." >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> The issues I've had in the past with it - keeping everybody >>>>> equal, etc - >>>>> > >> I think we can set aside for the purposes of getting more members >>>>> / more >>>>> > >> interest / more events / etc. Another issue was how we manage it >>>>> - and I >>>>> > >> think honour system is fine. If you're going to school full-time, >>>>> and >>>>> > >> you tell us you are, that's good enough. If we don't believe you, >>>>> then >>>>> > >> you probably shouldn't be a member anwyays. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> It would create extra work for Jay - to switch members from >>>>> student to >>>>> > >> regular when necessary - so he definitely has a say in this. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Students could, of course, choose to pay the full amount, if >>>>> they'd >>>>> > >> like. :) >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Thoughts? >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Ron >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> - ----- Forwarded message from David Stewart < >>>>> [email protected]> ----- >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:15:37 -0500 >>>>> > >> From: David Stewart <[email protected]> >>>>> > >> To: [email protected] >>>>> > >> Subject: Skullspace student/casual memberships >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Hello Ron, >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Over the past year I have sporadically attended various >>>>> events at >>>>> > >> Skullspace (Most notably Mak's C course) and while I would like >>>>> to become a >>>>> > >> full member, there has always been a few things that have held me >>>>> back >>>>> > >> (mostly due to lack of time). Compounding my existing lack of >>>>> time problem >>>>> > >> is that since have I started school full time at the U of M, the >>>>> amount of >>>>> > >> free time I have has taken a dive off a cliff. Furthermore, >>>>> being a full >>>>> > >> time student, has rendered me more or less broke. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I would like to contribute to the success of Skullspace, but >>>>> $40 a >>>>> > >> month is beyond my reach financially for now, and quite frankly >>>>> with my >>>>> > >> dwindling free time I could hardly spend any time at all at the >>>>> space >>>>> > >> anyways. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I'm sure you see where I am going with this, but I will ask >>>>> the >>>>> > >> question directly.... Has there ever been discussion about >>>>> memberships for >>>>> > >> student/casual members? - Perhaps key less if need be, and/or >>>>> based on >>>>> > >> hours at the space per month, non-voting (or 1/2 of a vote), >>>>> without a >>>>> > >> dedicated storage spot etc. ? I realize that this has the >>>>> potential to be >>>>> > >> a slippery slope of "special treatment", but could a fair system >>>>> be hashed >>>>> > >> out? To me it seems that this could help to open up membership >>>>> to a wider >>>>> > >> audience and increase the amount of membership dues collected >>>>> each month >>>>> > >> without causing a significant increase in operating >>>>> > >> costs.......Additionally, this could help to make Skullspace a >>>>> more >>>>> > >> inclusive community. (Not that it is particularly exclusionary >>>>> at the >>>>> > >> moment!) >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Anyways it's just a thought, I'll leave it to you and the >>>>> Skullspace group >>>>> > >> to make the decisions on this, but feel free to ask me questions >>>>> and I'll >>>>> > >> do my best to get back to you asap. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Regards, >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> David Stewart >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> - ----- End forwarded message ----- >>>>> > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> > >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> iEYEARECAAYFAlB8Y94ACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/QmTQCg3asSucA+sQ7tmhyg3OZmEgDn >>>>> > >> P+oAn0uoAcEd3CF8plbHAAwB5h0jbcPe >>>>> > >> =ju56 >>>>> > >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>> > >> Help: >>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>> > >> Archive: >>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> >>>>> iEYEARECAAYFAlB8aFcACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/RJrwCfTVP2eHyTJhtiVwU4FWP9N8hG >>>>> NBkAoM+pqgnRJ/mUuifs1/fMztlSTq7V >>>>> =iGqa >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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