Maybe Kenny could swap you some blue? On Mar 28, 2013 2:47 PM, "Benjamin Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Colin: if you have another colour of cable you are willing to spare, I'll > take a length of that and you can finish off my box. My run at home will be > in the ceiling/wall so colour doesn't matter. > > > On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Colin Stanners <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Most of the cable being run needs to be white. We already have the cable >> needed for the classroom-abovebathrooms job from Ben (I almost used up his >> whole 1000ft box - leaving the rest because he needed to use some - I'll be >> buying more white cable at Itech). >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Ken DeWitt < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Reading this discussion has made me realize that the box of cable I have >>> is not the right color. Would it be problem if the cable I am using at the >>> space is going to be blue. Also Colin when you are finished with >>> installing the security camera and other things please let me know so I can >>> figure out what is left from the cable skull space has. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Any question or comments you can email or call me at any time. >>> I will get back to you as fast as I can. >>> >>> Thank you and have a nice day!! >>> >>> Ken DeWitt >>> Your Fellow Tech. Guy >>> >>> Phone # : 204-998-3218 >>> Email: kendewitt@y <[email protected]>ftg.ca >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Colin Stanners <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> There should be one else I'll donate one. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is there a crimper, or do you usually bring your own? >>>>> On Mar 28, 2013 10:08 AM, "Colin Stanners" <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There's lots of ends at Sksp, I'd welcome help running the cable, >>>>>> just need to go over the plan with you to make sure it's well-hidden. For >>>>>> the cables from the end of the classroom to above the bathrooms, white >>>>>> cable will be mostly hidden in the cracks between the roof boards using >>>>>> screwed-in zipties. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Ken DeWitt < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just need ends >>>>>>> On 2013-03-27 6:26 PM, "Ian Trump" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Correct. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2013-03-27, at 18:15, "Justin Lacko" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ian, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I never brought up a cost or asked for money - the idea was that >>>>>>>> perhaps we could get the necessary cable run equipment as a donation, >>>>>>>> possibly from HSC. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I thought that we can't expense anything to SkSp right now >>>>>>>> anyways, unless it's approved? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 16:43, Ian Trump <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Great Ken, way to step up very much appreciated. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just please be aware we have a minimal budget for this work. The >>>>>>>>> priority right now is to save for the needed electrical work and allow >>>>>>>>> Colin to complete his work on security and access control. I just >>>>>>>>> looked at our finances. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The club is at 41 full member equivalents, we need 52 full >>>>>>>>> member equivalents to be sustainable. We are loosing >>>>>>>>> -$460 approximately per month, I am not counting donations above >>>>>>>>> a 40.00 per full member equivalent, because they are donations - >>>>>>>>> they may go away at any moment. Interestingly food and beverage sales >>>>>>>>> manage to pay our monthly Hydro bill (more or less). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Current projections show "Death" on the 1'st of October 2014 if >>>>>>>>> things remained the same, which they won't and we would rally and not >>>>>>>>> letthat happen. That's 18 months to get 11 full member equivalentsand >>>>>>>>> not loose anyone along this way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When we get to 52 we can start looking at the nice to haves, right >>>>>>>>> now we must focus on the must haves. The 3D printer was deemed a >>>>>>>>> must have by the membership to attract more members. It was funded by >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> membership outside of regular dues and donations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, please let's be very careful about incurring expenses, we are >>>>>>>>> very close to complete sustainability. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> PS; Donations of time and materials are so important to the club >>>>>>>>> bottom line that stuff has a huge impact, a box of cable or stuff >>>>>>>>> like that >>>>>>>>> keeps the "Day of Doom" far away. All of you who have put in >>>>>>>>> sweatequity, given equipment and "raw" IT material, >>>>>>>>> or made financial contributions above the 40.00 have really >>>>>>>>> sustained the club - on behalf of the board you have our sincere >>>>>>>>> thanks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *From:* [email protected] [ >>>>>>>>> [email protected]] on behalf of Ken DeWitt [ >>>>>>>>> [email protected]] >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* March 27, 2013 16:23 >>>>>>>>> *To:* Skull Space Discussion List >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Skullspace2 Infrastructure >>>>>>>>> update: network, security, oh my! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I can do all the wiring for the class room and comp areas. >>>>>>>>> On 2013-03-27 4:09 PM, "Justin Lacko" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ian, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We were talking about running cat5 cable to the classroom and >>>>>>>>>> computer work areas long before the security camera job came into >>>>>>>>>> full >>>>>>>>>> swing... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In the past, people have demonstrated a desire for having a >>>>>>>>>> wired internet hookup in these places. It would be beneficial. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not telling Colin he needs to do it, I'm asking what we >>>>>>>>>> need to do to get the ball rolling to obtain the cable trays to >>>>>>>>>> start. >>>>>>>>>> Currently, we have cat5 wiring running to the electrical bench and >>>>>>>>>> lounge >>>>>>>>>> via hanging wires - something which your inspector friend brought up >>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>> no-no. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think we can all appreciate how hard Colin works for the >>>>>>>>>> group. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 15:42, Ian Trump <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to ask why these drops are needed? Given all the >>>>>>>>>>> other things Colin is working on can we give this request a low >>>>>>>>>>> priority? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For the sake of Colin's sanity let's balance some of these >>>>>>>>>>> requests in terms of priority. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Let me put this another way. Until cameras and access control >>>>>>>>>>> is sorted out, would it not be reasonable to let him finish the >>>>>>>>>>> jobs that >>>>>>>>>>> are started? let's let him breath. Invoice his customers for the >>>>>>>>>>> 100's of >>>>>>>>>>> side jobs, etc he has completed over the past few months. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Colin is working flat out and trying to run a business lets >>>>>>>>>>> let him finish some jobs before asking more of the guy. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ian >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2013-03-27, at 15:33, "Justin Lacko" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What is required to start getting proper cat5 network drops >>>>>>>>>>> to the classroom? Colin, you mentioned we needed some cable tray >>>>>>>>>>> system... >>>>>>>>>>> who can we contact to supply us with this? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> High speed crow, perhaps? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 27 March 2013 08:45, Colin Stanners <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That is well in need of update for the new space... once I get >>>>>>>>>>>> the sksp wiki password from my old laptop (VNC not working, need to >>>>>>>>>>>> troubleshoot that) I'll put a notice on the page saying that. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Ron >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you still maintaining the "Networking" wiki page? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2013-03-27 02:22, Colin Stanners wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > So that everyone knows what I'm working on and can give >>>>>>>>>>>>> advice/comments. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > (Also so that I don't forget the details of all these...) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Wiring (following the 'harder/longer job = add more spare >>>>>>>>>>>>> wires' rule, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> > using >>>>>>>>>>>>> > white wires & white wire trays in corners so they're >>>>>>>>>>>>> invisible to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> > landlord) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ----------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Done: 6x wires from above-bathrooms to downstairs door: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x cat5 + 1x 18/2: card access, doorbell >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2x cat5: outside front door camera and >>>>>>>>>>>>> either inside front >>>>>>>>>>>>> > door or street camera >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x cat5 + 1x 18/2: spare wires (both above >>>>>>>>>>>>> cameras can be >>>>>>>>>>>>> > put on 1x cat5 to allow another spare). >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Done: 5x wires from server room to above-bathrooms: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x 22/4 wire: card access serial control, >>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe patch to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > fire panel >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2x cat5: to Sksp main network switch >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x cat5: VGAoverCAT5 so projector can show >>>>>>>>>>>>> security >>>>>>>>>>>>> > cams/other video from VGA splitter >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x cat5: 4x video feeds (2x front door, >>>>>>>>>>>>> sksp2 door, spare) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > In progress: 3x wires from above-bathroom to end of >>>>>>>>>>>>> classroom: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1x cat5: was going to be for flag cameras >>>>>>>>>>>>> but I may not >>>>>>>>>>>>> > install this one now >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2x cat5: likely will connect back to main >>>>>>>>>>>>> sksp switch >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Doorbell >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> > It works and causes an annoying sound to come from the box >>>>>>>>>>>>> above the >>>>>>>>>>>>> > bathrooms - later I'll wire it so the bell will always ring >>>>>>>>>>>>> when the card >>>>>>>>>>>>> > access >>>>>>>>>>>>> > system's power is disconnected (may have enough battery >>>>>>>>>>>>> power to last hours) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Cameras (old analog models running 12-24v power and video >>>>>>>>>>>>> over cat5) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 7: Both ends of the rear parking lot; back door (needs >>>>>>>>>>>>> better mount); >>>>>>>>>>>>> > elevator; >>>>>>>>>>>>> > outside Sksp2 door; outside front door; and either inside >>>>>>>>>>>>> front door or >>>>>>>>>>>>> > street. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > A PC - either Zewwy's nice donated machine or the active >>>>>>>>>>>>> card access PC - >>>>>>>>>>>>> > running 2x analog 4-input cards (currently the crappy $10 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ones that only do >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> > FPS; possibly better ones later) and Zoneminder under Linux >>>>>>>>>>>>> or BlueIris or >>>>>>>>>>>>> > IspyConnect under Windows to capture video upon motion, also >>>>>>>>>>>>> web viewing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I bought a 1x4 VGA splitter from Monoprice and eBay >>>>>>>>>>>>> VGAoverCAT5 adapters* >>>>>>>>>>>>> > so that the view from the security PC can be sent to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> currently-unused >>>>>>>>>>>>> > second VGA inputs on the projectors and can be easily >>>>>>>>>>>>> brought up. Of course >>>>>>>>>>>>> > any other signal can be sent to the projectors this way for >>>>>>>>>>>>> presentations >>>>>>>>>>>>> > etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > *I got the cheap $1 units that just couple the cables; not >>>>>>>>>>>>> the $100 units >>>>>>>>>>>>> > that include >>>>>>>>>>>>> > filters, converting the unbalanced signals to differential >>>>>>>>>>>>> ones to work >>>>>>>>>>>>> > better over >>>>>>>>>>>>> > twisted pair, and skew correction. I'll do homemade skew >>>>>>>>>>>>> correction by >>>>>>>>>>>>> > calculating >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the length of the cat5 and measuring some pairs a bit longer >>>>>>>>>>>>> so they all >>>>>>>>>>>>> > 'match' >>>>>>>>>>>>> > electrically. The length ratios of different pairs in cat5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> are at the end >>>>>>>>>>>>> > of the wikip page. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Projectors >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ----------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Sksp lounge: I'm getting the same MP stand so it can be >>>>>>>>>>>>> roof-mounted too >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Classroom: need to install wire guide to make power/VGA runs >>>>>>>>>>>>> nicer. If the >>>>>>>>>>>>> > power >>>>>>>>>>>>> > outlet over the bathroom happens soon it can feed the >>>>>>>>>>>>> projector instead of >>>>>>>>>>>>> > having >>>>>>>>>>>>> > an ugly wire run down the side of the classroom wall. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Both of these will have a line from the VGA splitter >>>>>>>>>>>>> delivered over cat5, >>>>>>>>>>>>> > as above. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Outside back wiring >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I installed a pipe in the back door frame so running wires >>>>>>>>>>>>> is super easy. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Still >>>>>>>>>>>>> > would be good to install a pipe or guy wire to allow a nicer >>>>>>>>>>>>> run to top >>>>>>>>>>>>> > level of >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the fire escape and up to roof for later antennas >>>>>>>>>>>>> (satellite, amateur >>>>>>>>>>>>> > radio, etc). >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Internet access and link to AW >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > We're still dependent on the AW link for internet, VOI needs >>>>>>>>>>>>> time to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > install a >>>>>>>>>>>>> > dedicated dish. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > We've had the hardware to upgrade the 10x4mbit AW link to >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100x100mbit >>>>>>>>>>>>> > since the beginning but it's quite a few hours to >>>>>>>>>>>>> setup/configure/install. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Network Monitoring >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Having a Linux box running MRTG to show the traffic on all >>>>>>>>>>>>> switch ports, >>>>>>>>>>>>> > maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>> > even local temperature and network rack power usage >>>>>>>>>>>>> (measured at UPSes). >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Doorbell and camera at outside loading dock door >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'm considering this, does anything think it'll be useful? >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Changing subnets >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Changing 192.168.1.x net to 172.16. would allow VPNing (from >>>>>>>>>>>>> Linksys >>>>>>>>>>>>> > routers etc). >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Also maybe separate the 'sksp' and 'wifi / public / >>>>>>>>>>>>> untrusted' on different >>>>>>>>>>>>> > networks. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Card access fixes >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Would be nice to have a button upstairs to remote open >>>>>>>>>>>>> downstairs door >>>>>>>>>>>>> > (next to the sksp phone?) easy to do but need to run a wire >>>>>>>>>>>>> there, or get >>>>>>>>>>>>> > one >>>>>>>>>>>>> > of those cheap ebay remote controls. Front door is missing a >>>>>>>>>>>>> sensor that >>>>>>>>>>>>> > lets the system know when the door is open because the door >>>>>>>>>>>>> was closing >>>>>>>>>>>>> > too tight against the frame for one to be installed (note >>>>>>>>>>>>> hole in door), >>>>>>>>>>>>> > fix soon. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Internal web page with links to all device web interfaces >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > The one I did for AW is useful, will make one for Sksp one >>>>>>>>>>>>> day >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Card access control PCs (both currently sitting in pieces) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ----------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > The Shuttle PCs (I always want 2 units with identical h/w, >>>>>>>>>>>>> for easy backup) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > have had issues for awhile due to bad capacitors that are a >>>>>>>>>>>>> bigger job to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > replace. We didn't have any identical PCs around sksp that I >>>>>>>>>>>>> could use so >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Ian >>>>>>>>>>>>> > donated an old pair... that were from around the same era >>>>>>>>>>>>> and turn out to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > also >>>>>>>>>>>>> > have bad capacitors. But those are better engineered (IBM) >>>>>>>>>>>>> and easier to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > recap. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > The Shuttle PCs have been partially recapped (mobos and >>>>>>>>>>>>> PSUs) but once I >>>>>>>>>>>>> > move to the IBMs they may appear in the pile of doom if >>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone wants them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > The fobs I've been giving out recently were PegJam ones that >>>>>>>>>>>>> had been >>>>>>>>>>>>> > activated when the PCs were still working... need to fix >>>>>>>>>>>>> soon before I run >>>>>>>>>>>>> > out. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Skullspace door: allowing landlord access and easy exit >>>>>>>>>>>>> > --------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I got a motion detector from eBay to allow auto-unlocking >>>>>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>>>>> > people get close to the door inside, but in the process of >>>>>>>>>>>>> converting its >>>>>>>>>>>>> > relay >>>>>>>>>>>>> > from the positive terminal to connecting the negative >>>>>>>>>>>>> terminal >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I seem to have broken something since now it won't un-detect >>>>>>>>>>>>> after boot. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Door access for landlord/staff without keyfob: may be >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible to move the >>>>>>>>>>>>> > current deadbolt to the "main" doorknob to make it work, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> this is >>>>>>>>>>>>> > far on my to-do list right now, or $500 to get done by a >>>>>>>>>>>>> locksmith. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > This would also allow exit without needing to push a button >>>>>>>>>>>>> - preferable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Another option people mentioned would be a keypad at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> door that unlocks >>>>>>>>>>>>> > the door - this is easy and cheap to do but I'd rather have >>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard >>>>>>>>>>>>> > key option. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Door remote control: would be nice to have; need to buy a >>>>>>>>>>>>> copy of Kantech >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Entrapass SE ($300, but I may be able to get a bit cheaper >>>>>>>>>>>>> price). I got >>>>>>>>>>>>> > an old version of that software (Winpass64 from 2001) for >>>>>>>>>>>>> $15 off ebay to >>>>>>>>>>>>> > try it out but that software was *garbage* (Win3.1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> interface, some kind of >>>>>>>>>>>>> > constant database layer concurrency issues, >>>>>>>>>>>>> horrible/illogical design, etc.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Hooking access control to fire alarm for auto-release: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > ------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Should be easily doable, I'll need to check if I can do it >>>>>>>>>>>>> or if we need >>>>>>>>>>>>> > someone with a license to come in and do it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Help: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Archive: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>>> Help: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>>> Help: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>>>>>> Help: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 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>>>>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>>> Archive: >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>>>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>>>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 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