On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:33:59 -0500 "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt...@obsidian-studios.com> said:
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:14:21 +0900 > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > But that is the reality. They can call the shots and listen to users. > > Users are not always right. But listening is good. In the end people > > doing work make the final decisions. And I guess to some extent I > > hold a veto power over those which I generally choose not to exercise > > except on rare occasions when I think it is warranted. > > Not for all, I think those that balance user needs the most tend to > prosper the most. It is the same for companies that make products. They > choose what to make, and how. But the ultimate decider if they were > right or not is the market, the users. > > Apple was never big on focus groups, but if a product hit market and > did not do well. That was a tell as to product failure or success. > Either method relies on the end user, before, during, or after. Users > tend to make or break things, determine if it was successful or not. > > Gentoo has had an ever increasing focus on those doing the work vs > users and its not had a good effect. I try to always put users needs > above my own. Even when I am the one doing the work. a volunteer is not going to do something they dislike. certainly not readily. users have to convince the volunteer to do it. not the other way around (that volunteers need to be slaves to users and do work for them even if the volunteer disagrees and dislikes it). volunteers don't get paid... they do things because they desire and want to. it's the user's job to convince them... or for the user to stand up and do it themselves. :) > > I think there is a balance. Moving forward with minimal interference, > > yet still trying to maintain quality too. You will never have > > perfect. Perfect is the enemy of good. > > I completely agree. I think in FOSS there is to much striving for > perfection. When in closed source, at some point must ship to make > money and recoup investment. I think FOSS has more hang ups to shipping > less than perfect software. When the world is based on less than > perfect software as is now. > > Take GNU kernel vs Linux. Keep striving for perfect, was taking > forever, and Linux screamed on by. Good example of such. > > > > > I don't think we need STRUCTURE. I think we need communication. I > > > > think people have become awfully bad at this. Here is what people > > > > need to do IMHO. > > > > > > I agree on communication, but I also believe structure is important > > > to organizing any group of people to work together on anything. > > > > structure is no good without communication to begin with. > > I agree, communication is the core to it all. An organization cannot do > a thing without good communication. You will have a hard time > organizing at all without communication. :) > > > > f) I still think E should have the filemanager built in. It's far > > > > too useful to not do this. It's pretty much necessary for icons on > > > > the desktop and consistent FM UI. If its done in-process or > > > > outside is another matter, but it has to be deeply integrated. > > > > > > In brief, I am not a big fan of such. Seems like a Windows concept > > > where Explorer ( not Internet Explorer) is deeply integrated. Pretty > > > much any issue I have with E that is non-recoverable comes from > > > EFM. > > > > actually ... this pre-dates windows. amiga workbench had it all > > integrated before windows 1.0 was around. and i'm an amiga fan. a lot > > of e was inspired from those days. i firmly believe a filemanager has > > to be deeply integrated. > > Maybe best for another thread. I am curious what benefits you see in a > deeply integrated file manager. I think that goes against the Unix > philosophy of not deeply integrating anything. e doesn't follow the "unix philosophy". quoting it doesn't work. i believe in efficiency. if it's something that can be controlled by the same group and thus can get attention and get fixed along with it and it needs to be integrated (desktop icons require this as does efficiency) then it should be part of the same process most likely. e has never been a "unix philosophy thing" for as long as it has existed. this is not a new thing. it's been the "have 1 process do as much of your day to day desktop as can be done/is sensible" and fm is sensible. it's not fundamentally that the shelf or e's menus or wallpaper handling etc. - if you want the unix philosophy then all of those move out to processes too. if you like that then kde is probably good for you. :) gnome used to be until gnome 3... :) > I just do not like any one thing taking out other stuff. The more > things can be limited and only effect themselves, the better IMHO. that is why e has crash recovery... :) but everything being separate comes with a cost. it's not cheap to have lots of processes. especially for things you run all the time, like a filemanager (for the normal icons on desktop). > > what are the non-recoverable issues you have? i don't see those. i do > > use efm... sometimes thumbnails are blank - scrol lup and down again > > and it fixes... recently dnd seems to be flaky and stop working but > > that's not an efm change. something in efl did this i think. efm > > doesn't have a transhcan. that should be added. > > The main one, maybe theme issue, is some animation I cannot easily > replicate. Where there are arrows on all four corners of the box around > the selected file/folder. It does an animation and never ends and gets like arrows pointing in over a directory indicating you are going to drop the file into the directory? if it's that - how does it get stuck. it's objects in the canvas in the window.. they are drawn in the window.. so they can't remain if the window goes. there is no canvas to draw them anymore... so this doesn't make sense. unless its the desktop files - that window is the whole fulls screen canvas of the compositor... and i can't make the arrows stay around at all... if drop is done they go away. if dnd moves somewhere else they go away. > stuck. Remains on screen after closing EFM. I have had other issues > where I could not close it. Those are what I can recall offhand. > Pretty sure there are more. I really try to avoid it. > > Aside from curiosity the main reason I have verne installed is issues > with EFM. I really try to avoid it due to past history with it. > > Trashcan is some what moot to me, as I rarely delete files via a file > manager. it's about the only annoyance i find as its just a fast way of nuking a file rather than right-click .. navigate to delete, then say "yes"in the dialog or hit del key and say "yes" in dialog. drag and drop into a trashcan is faster and simpler and... it's undoable (if done right). > Along the same lines, I cannot select multiple files/folders/icons on > the desktop. Though maybe related to main menu being left click. You of course you can. shift and ctrl + click. you cant "rubber-band" select and that's because this conflicts with the main menu which activates on mouse down and uses the same click+drag+release style of use (as well as click+release then another click+release). > can do that in the file manager itself. -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
