Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > Brent Meeker writes: > > > Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > Brent Meeker writes: > > > > > > > > > This raises the question again of "what is the minimum > duration of a > > > > > conscious state"? You mention 5sec as being a long time for a > > > > > coincidental match (would there still be two consciousnesses > for that > > > > > 5sec - I think not), but what about 300msec, or 100msec. > There's not > > > > > much consciousness in 100msec; so little that it may be occuring > > > > > hundreds of times over in different brains. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brent Meeker > > > > > > > > > > I think the minimum duration of a conscious experience is of > the order > > > > > of 100 msec, so if you are shown a red flash it will take at least > > > this > > > > > long before you perceive a red flash. This implies a minimum > duration > > > > > for an observer moment, although the interval can be divided up > > > > > arbitrarily (for example, in teleportation thought experiments) > > > leaving > > > > > the experience intact. However, this raises a difficulty. > Suppose you > > > > > are shown a red flash and 99 msec later you are teleported to a > > > distant > > > > > place. Once you materialise, your neurons will continue their > > > processing > > > > > of the red flash for another 1 msec and at that point (i.e. 100 > msec > > > > > after being shown the flash) you will perceive it. Next, > suppose that > > > > > you have no past but are created at the teleportation receiving > > > station > > > > > from information *as if* you had been shown a red flash 99 msec > ago. > > > > > Your newly-created brain will process information for another 1 > > > msec and > > > > > then you should perceive the red flash. However, in this case > you have > > > > > only been alive for 1 msec, and we can easily change the > experiment to > > > > > make this interval as short as we want. Does this mean that an > > > observer > > > > > moment can actually be instantaneous? > > > > > > > > > > Stathis Papaioannou > > > > > > > > This example implicitly assumes a kind of dualism or cartesian > > > theatre in which the brain does some processing *and then* you (the > > > really real you) perceives it. This is the idea Dennett criticizes in > > > "Consciousness Explained". The perception must be the processing and > > > even if the flash is very short and it's perceived duration is very > > > short, the brain processes producing that perception can be much > longer. > > > > > > > > Brent Meeker > > > > > > Do you doubt that you would perceive the red flash in the case > where you > > > have not had 100 msec to process it? At the least you would remember > > > seeing the flash, implying that the stream of consciousness will > survive > > > division into arbitrarily small intervals. > > > > > > Stathis Papaioannou > > > > Assuming that consciousness supervenes on the physics, this follows > just from the continuity of the physics. But it doesn't follow that > there is some experience corresponding to 1msec of brain processing - it > might be that "seeing the flash" spans some time interval. > > That's true, but it still allows that the process underpinning > consciousness can be arbitrarily divided up. I think others on the list > have used "observer moment" to mean these arbitrarily small time slices, > even though you can't actually observe anything during one of them. > > Stathis Papaioannou
OK, but that means "observer moments" are not fundamental and the "illusion" of their continuity may be provided by the continuity of their underpinning. But I don't see how a strictly stepwise discrete process as contemplated in the UD can provide that continuity. It was my understanding that it assumed consciousness could be provided by a series of disjoint states. Brent Meeker --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---