Hello Bruno,

> More exactly: I can conceive fake policemen in paper are not conscious, 
> and that is all I need to accept I can be fail by some zombie.
> Thus I can conceive zombies.

Ok, but conceivability does not entail possibilty. I think philosophical 
zombies are impossible (=not able to exist in the real world), not 

> Developing this argument makes zombies logically conceivable, even, if 
> I would refute the claim that a zombie acting exactly like I would act 
> in any situation can exist. Accidental zombie can exist. It could 
> depend what we put exactly in the term zombie.

Ok, I agree with that.

>> and here you clarify:
>>> If this were true, then the movie graph (step 8 without occam) would
>>> not been needed. Arithmetical truth is provably full of philosophical
>>> zombies if comp is true and step 8 false.

Hmm - in step 8 you eliminate the physical universe, which is ok *grin* 
- but why would arithmetical truth be full of zombies with comp true and 
  step 8 false -> physicalism true? do you mean because we could than 
program AIs which would behave "correctly" but would not be conscious?

> So it is just a theorem in computer science: computations are encodable 
> (and thus encoded) in the (additive+multiplicative) relations existing 
> between numbers.

Ok, I'm with you.

> So, someone who does not believe in philosophical zombies, does not 
> need the step 8 (the Movie Graph Argument MGA), because arithmetical 
> truth does contains the computation describing, well, for example this 
> very discussion we have here and now.

Ok, so I guess that would be my position *grin* - I think that all 
states have a form of mentality - maybe not full consciousness, but 

> For me the MGA is needed because I don't want to rely on the non 
> existence of zombie.


What I still don't get is why you associate mental states only with 
_true_ statements. Why not with false ones? Would that not be more in 
line with a plenitude-like theory?

False states could encode very weird psychic experiences (dreams for 
instance or whatever...)

>> I follow you that 1st person is recoverable by a 3rd person number
>> theoretic description - or better, OMs are - but how would a zombie 
>> come
>> about? Can you give an example?
> Just consider the computation which correspond to your actual real 
> life. That computation is encoded (indeed an infinity of times) in the 
> Universal Deploiement, which is itself encoded (indeed an infinity of 
> times) in the set of all arithmetical truth. All right? 

Agreed in principle (with my question of why only true sentences thrown in)

>such a > computation would define an arithmetical version of you, and would 
> constitute a phisophical (indeed arithmetical) zombies.

Ok, I think it would not be a zombie - already once we accept _comp_ - 
maudlin notwithstanding; I think Maudlin saw his argument rather as 
causing a problem for _comp_

> If you define the zombies as having a "material" body, then it is 

I would say a zombie is a creature which behaves exactly like X but does 
not have mental states, but X has mental states.

Best Wishes,

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