On Nov 12, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > First, I have never stop to work on that and try to share the argument > with people interested in the matter.
True. You're tireless! (That's a complement.) > Second, it happens that sometimes I think the burden his on him to > tell us what he means by a physical universe. I totally agree. But most people will just wave their arms and say, "What do you mean? We're obviously in a physical universe. What's problematic about that?" And then the burden is back on us to explain why the concept of "physical existence" is more problematic than it seems. Burden Tennis. > It is not a question of taste. It is a question of acknowledging use > of logic and assumptions, and finding either hidden assumptions, or > imprecise statements or invalid argument step(s). I see your point. But there are issues of clarity or focus, and to some extent those are a matter of taste. I'd like to read an essay (by anyone) that lays out a clear argument in favor of the position that computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious. I believe this argument can be made without reference to Loebian machines, first-person indeterminacy, or teleportation thought- experiments. I hope you don't find my criticism too annoying. It's easy for me to sit on the sidelines and take potshots, while you've done a lot of actual work. And remember that I do, in fact, believe that computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious, so you're usually preaching to the choir with me. My point is that, I can imagine Dennett reading your posts, and saying "Ok, that makes sense *if* we accept that computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious. But I still don't see why I should believe that." I guess what it comes down to is that the Movie Graph Argument on its own doesn't seem fully convincing to me. But it's quite possible that I don't fully understand that argument. (I have my own reasons for believing that computations don't need to be implemented in order to be conscious, and sometimes I think some of them are functionally equivalent to the MGA, but I'm not sure.) Where is the clearest statement of the MGA? -- Kory --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---