Are not logic gates black boxes, though? Does it really matter what happens
between Input and Output? In which case, it has absolutely no bearing on
Alice's consciousness whether the gate's a neuron, an electronic doodah, a
team of well-trained monkeys or a lucky quantum event or synchronicity. It
does not matter, really, where or when the actions of the gate take place.

2008/11/19 Jason Resch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Does everyone accept, like Russell,  that, assuming COMP and MAT, Alice
>> is not a zombie? I mean, is there someone who object? Remember we are
>> proving implication/ MAT+MECH => <something>. We never try to argue
>> about that <something> per se. Eventually we hope to prove MAT+MECH =>
>> false, that is NOT(MAT & MECH) which is equivalent to MAT implies NOT
>> MECH, MECH => NOT MAT, etc.
>> (by MAT i mean materialism, or naturalism, or physicalism or more
>> generally "the physical supervenience thesis", according to which
>> consciousness supervenes on the physical activity of the brain.
> Bruno, I am on the fence as to whether or not Alice is a Zombie.  The
> argument for her not being conscious is related to the non causal effect of
> information in this scenario.  A string of 1's and 0's which is simply
> defined out of nowhere, in my opinion cannot contain conscious observers,
> even if it could be considered to encode brain states conscious observers or
> a universe with conscious observers.  To have meaningful information there
> must be relations between objects, such as the flow of information in the
> succession of states in a Turing machine.  In the case of Alice, the
> information coming from the cosmic rays is meaningless, and might as well
> have occurred in isolation.  If all of Alice's logic gates had been spread
> over a field, and made to fire in the same way due to cosmic rays and if all
> logic gates remained otherwise disconnected from each other, would anyone
> consider this field of logic gates be conscious?
> I have an idea that consciousness is related to hierarchies of information,
> at the lowest levels of neural activity, simple computations of small
> amounts of information combine information into a result, and then these
> higher level results are passed up to higher levels of processing, etc.  For
> example the red/green/blue data from the eyes are combined into single
> pixels, these pixels are combined into an field of colors, this field of
> colors is then processed by object classification sections of the brain.  So
> my argument that Alice might not be conscious would be related to the
> skipping of steps through the injection of information which is "empty" (not
> having been computed from lower level sets of information and hence not
> actually conveying any information).
> Jason
> ) I do not believe is
> >

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