On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> On 09 Jun 2011, at 07:14, Rex Allen wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:42 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>> On 07 Jun 2011, at 00:52, Rex Allen wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> It is not that hard to get, so would be worth your
>>>>> while trying to understand.
>>>> I think I understand this already.  The whole teleporting
>>>> moscow-washington thing, right?
>>>> In Platonia, there are many computational paths that branch out from
>>>> the current state that represents "me".
>>>> Each of these paths looks like a "possible future" from my subjective
>>>> standpoint.
>>>> But, they're not possible, they're actual.  In Platonia, they all
>>>> exist.  And they do so timelessly...so they're not "futures" they're a
>>>> series of "nows".
>>>> So, subjectively, I have the "illusion" of an undetermined "future".
>>>> But...really, it's determined.  Every one of those paths is
>>>> objectively actualized.
>>>> So how does this prove what I said false?  All those static "futures"
>>>> are mine.  They're all determined.  I'm still on rails...it's just
>>>> that the rails split in a rather unintuitive way.
>>>> Even if we say that what constitutes "me" is a single unbranched
>>>> path...this still doesn't make what I said false.  I'm one of those
>>>> paths, I just don't know which.  But ignorance of the future is not
>>>> indeterminism.  Ignorance of the future is ignorance of the (fully
>>>> determined)
>>>> future.
>>> This is an argument against any determinist theory, or any block-universe
>>> theory. It is an argument again compatibilist theory of free will, and an
>>> argument against science in general, not just the mechanist hypothesis.
>> Hard determinism is incompatible with science in general?
> ? On the contrary. It was your argument against determinism which I took as
> incompatible with science or scientific attitude.

I'm not arguing against determinism.  I'm fine with determinism and
it's consequences.

> But third person determinism does not entails first person
> determinism, nor do determinism in general prevents genuine free will.

Determinism doesn't prevent your "redefined" version of "free will",
which of course isn't free will at all - but rather a psychological
coping mechanism disguised as a reasonable position.

BUT...I didn't say third person determinism.  I said "hard
determinism"...the alternative to the soft determinism of

> People believing that determinism per se
> makes free will impossible confuse themselves with God.

No, people who believe that determinism is incompatible with free will
have a firm understanding of the meaning of both determinism and free

> But now I am no more sure what you are saying. Are you OK with hard
> determinism? Are you OK with block-multiverse, or block-mindscape?

I'm fine with "hard determinism".  I am a "hard determinist"...which
is the position that determinism is incompatible with free will.


I'm also fine with block-multiverse.  And with a block-mindscape.

Neither of which allow for free will.  Since both of which are static,
unchanging, and unchangeable - making it impossible that anyone "could
have done otherwise" than they actually did.  No one can be free of
that fact - and therefore no one has free will.


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