On Jul 21, 11:55 pm, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the existence > > of > > > number relations explains the existence of matter, but the existence of > > > matter does not explain the existence of number relations. > > > Yes it does. Any number relation that has ever been grasped by > > anybody exists in their mind, and therefore in their brain. And as > > for the ungrasped ones...so what? It can make no difference > > if they are there or not. > > Perhaps if those "ungrasped ones" did not exist then we might not exist. It > is premature to say their existence does not make a difference to us.

The existence of matter can explain the existence of numbers. The reverse might also be the case, but that is not a disproof. > I think may also be incorrect to say we need to grasp numbers or their > relations for them to matter. Consider this example: I generate a large > random number X, with no obvious factors (I think it is prime), but when I > compute (y^(X - 1)) and divide by X (where y is not a multiple of X), I find > the remainder is not 1. This means X is not prime: it has factors other > than 1 and X, but I haven't grasped what those factors are. Nor is there > any efficient method for finding out what they are. > Now the existence of these ungrasped numbers does make a difference. If I > attempted to build an RSA key using X and another legitimately prime number > (instead of two prime numbers), then the encryption won't work properly. I > won't be able to determine a private key because I don't know all the > factors. The contingent fact that is your failure to grasp a mathematical truth is makes a difference. Mathematical truths are not contingent, so what difference can they make? > What would you say about the existence of the factors of X? Do they > actually exist, despite that no one has any clue what they are? And does > their existence (despite being unknown) matter? > > Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.