On Jul 21, 11:55 pm, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Assume both matter and number relations exist.  With comp, the existence
> > of
> > > number relations explains the existence of matter, but the existence of
> > > matter does not explain the existence of number relations.
> > Yes it does. Any number relation  that has ever been grasped by
> > anybody exists in their mind, and therefore in their brain. And as
> > for the ungrasped ones...so what? It can make no difference
> > if they are there or not.
> Perhaps if those "ungrasped ones" did not exist then we might not exist.  It
> is premature to say their existence does not make a difference to us.

The existence of matter can explain the existence of numbers.
The reverse might also be the case, but that is not a disproof.

> I think may also be incorrect to say we need to grasp numbers or their
> relations for them to matter.  Consider this example: I generate a large
> random number X, with no obvious factors (I think it is prime), but when I
> compute (y^(X - 1)) and divide by X (where y is not a multiple of X), I find
> the remainder is not 1.  This means X is not prime: it has factors other
> than 1 and X, but I haven't grasped what those factors are.  Nor is there
> any efficient method for finding out what they are.

> Now the existence of these ungrasped numbers does make a difference.  If I
> attempted to build an RSA key using X and another legitimately prime number
> (instead of two prime numbers), then the encryption won't work properly.  I
> won't be able to determine a private key because I don't know all the
> factors.

The contingent fact that is your failure to grasp a mathematical
truth is makes a difference. Mathematical truths are not contingent,
what difference can they make?
> What would you say about the existence of the factors of X?  Do they
> actually exist, despite that no one has any clue what they are?  And does
> their existence (despite being unknown) matter?
> Jason

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