On 7/21/2011 3:55 PM, Jason Resch wrote:

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On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com<mailto:peterdjo...@yahoo.com>> wrote:> Assume both matter and number relations exist. With comp, the existence of > number relations explains the existence of matter, but the existence of > matter does not explain the existence of number relations. Yes it does. Any number relation that has ever been grasped by anybody exists in their mind, and therefore in their brain. And as for the ungrasped ones...so what? It can make no difference if they are there or not.Perhaps if those "ungrasped ones" did not exist then we might notexist. It is premature to say their existence does not make adifference to us.I think may also be incorrect to say we need to grasp numbers or theirrelations for them to matter. Consider this example: I generate alarge random number X, with no obvious factors (I think it is prime),but when I compute (y^(X - 1)) and divide by X (where y is not amultiple of X), I find the remainder is not 1. This means X is notprime: it has factors other than 1 and X, but I haven't grasped whatthose factors are. Nor is there any efficient method for finding outwhat they are.Now the existence of these ungrasped numbers does make a difference.If I attempted to build an RSA key using X and another legitimatelyprime number (instead of two prime numbers), then the encryption won'twork properly. I won't be able to determine a private key because Idon't know all the factors.What would you say about the existence of the factors of X? Do theyactually exist, despite that no one has any clue what they are? Anddoes their existence (despite being unknown) matter?Jason

`I'd say they 'exist' in Platonia; just like the factors of 10 'exist'.`

`It just means that if I have ten things I can imagine them in two rows`

`of five. It's quite different from the existence of material objects.`

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