On 7/21/2011 3:55 PM, Jason Resch wrote:


On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:55 PM, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com <mailto:peterdjo...@yahoo.com>> wrote:


    > Assume both matter and number relations exist.  With comp, the
    existence of
    > number relations explains the existence of matter, but the
    existence of
    > matter does not explain the existence of number relations.

    Yes it does. Any number relation  that has ever been grasped by
    anybody exists in their mind, and therefore in their brain. And as
    for the ungrasped ones...so what? It can make no difference
    if they are there or not.


Perhaps if those "ungrasped ones" did not exist then we might not exist. It is premature to say their existence does not make a difference to us.

I think may also be incorrect to say we need to grasp numbers or their relations for them to matter. Consider this example: I generate a large random number X, with no obvious factors (I think it is prime), but when I compute (y^(X - 1)) and divide by X (where y is not a multiple of X), I find the remainder is not 1. This means X is not prime: it has factors other than 1 and X, but I haven't grasped what those factors are. Nor is there any efficient method for finding out what they are.

Now the existence of these ungrasped numbers does make a difference. If I attempted to build an RSA key using X and another legitimately prime number (instead of two prime numbers), then the encryption won't work properly. I won't be able to determine a private key because I don't know all the factors.

What would you say about the existence of the factors of X? Do they actually exist, despite that no one has any clue what they are? And does their existence (despite being unknown) matter?

Jason


I'd say they 'exist' in Platonia; just like the factors of 10 'exist'. It just means that if I have ten things I can imagine them in two rows of five. It's quite different from the existence of material objects.

Brent

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