On 3/17/2012 8:01 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:20 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:

    > There are many possible enormous changes that could happen without you 
being aware
    of them.

Show me.

You are placed in a closed room and anesthesized. While you are unconscious you are moved to an identical room in Moscow. You wake up. There has been an enormous change in your position but you are not aware of it.

Show me a example of a change being made between 2 conscious beings that resulted in a enormous difference between them,

They are both anethesitized and ...

and yet the individual themselves could detect no subjective change and still saw themselves as so similar that even they themselves could not tell themselves apart, and a third party objective observer could not detect a difference between them either, not even theoretically.

The third party could tell the difference between them because as classical objects they have definite spacetime histories. Otherwise there would not be two bodies - only one, per Leibniz's principle.

Those are the conditions in my symmetrical room thought experiment, I showed there was no subjective difference between them and no objective difference between them, if you can show me that despite that there is still a enormous difference between them then you have won the argument. Good luck, you'll need it.

Keep it for yourself.

    > In the hypothetical duplicator/transporter the two persons would not see 
    otherwise perceive each other, so they would not be aware that a new 
individual was

So what, in my symmetrical room they would.

    > They would only have memories of entering the transporter in Helsinki and 
    opening the door and seeing either Moscow or Washington - which would 
    change their consciousness.

Certainly, so they would no longer be each other although both would still be the Helsinki man, he'd just be in new positions.

What do you mean "he'd"?? Since they are no longer each other, they can no longer be (in the sense of identity) the Helsinki man.

You change positions all the time and it doesn't seem to destroy your identity.

But it destroys my being identical. I'm not identical with who I was a minute ago. You seem to have trouble noticing that the same English word has different meanings. Try googling "Bill Clinton" and "is".

The person I was when I was 3 years old is dead. He died because
too much new information was added to his brain.
         -- Saibal Mitra

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