On 3/17/2012 8:01 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 1:20 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
> There are many possible enormous changes that could happen without you
You are placed in a closed room and anesthesized. While you are unconscious you are moved
to an identical room in Moscow. You wake up. There has been an enormous change in your
position but you are not aware of it.
Show me a example of a change being made between 2 conscious beings that resulted in a
enormous difference between them,
They are both anethesitized and ...
and yet the individual themselves could detect no subjective change and still saw
themselves as so similar that even they themselves could not tell themselves apart, and
a third party objective observer could not detect a difference between them either, not
The third party could tell the difference between them because as classical objects they
have definite spacetime histories. Otherwise there would not be two bodies - only one,
per Leibniz's principle.
Those are the conditions in my symmetrical room thought experiment, I showed there was
no subjective difference between them and no objective difference between them, if you
can show me that despite that there is still a enormous difference between them then you
have won the argument. Good luck, you'll need it.
Keep it for yourself.
> In the hypothetical duplicator/transporter the two persons would not see
otherwise perceive each other, so they would not be aware that a new
So what, in my symmetrical room they would.
> They would only have memories of entering the transporter in Helsinki and
opening the door and seeing either Moscow or Washington - which would
change their consciousness.
Certainly, so they would no longer be each other although both would still be the
Helsinki man, he'd just be in new positions.
What do you mean "he'd"?? Since they are no longer each other, they can no longer be (in
the sense of identity) the Helsinki man.
You change positions all the time and it doesn't seem to destroy your identity.
But it destroys my being identical. I'm not identical with who I was a minute ago. You
seem to have trouble noticing that the same English word has different meanings. Try
googling "Bill Clinton" and "is".
The person I was when I was 3 years old is dead. He died because
too much new information was added to his brain.
-- Saibal Mitra
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