On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 5:40 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > You are placed in a closed room and anesthesized. While you are > unconscious you are moved to an identical room in Moscow. You wake up. > There has been an enormous change in your position but you are not aware of > it. > And in your example there is a zero change in your consciousness, absolutely ZERO. How can I be so certain of that? You answered that question yourself, because "you are not aware of it". > > Show me a example of a change being made between 2 conscious beings > that resulted in a enormous difference between them, > > They are both anethesitized and ... > Position is irrelevant because there is no unique position to consciousness, good thing too otherwise we'd loose our identity every time we moved. >> and yet the individual themselves could detect no subjective change and >> still saw themselves as so similar that even they themselves could not tell >> themselves apart, and a third party objective observer could not detect a >> difference between them either, not even theoretically. > > > The third party could tell the difference between them because as > classical objects they have definite spacetime histories. But there is no way you can know the original and his identical copy can have a unique position ("definite spacetime histories" is too pompous for my taste) because for all you know, and for all they know, and for all the universe knows, those 2 identical objects, the copy and the original, could be exchanging position 10^44 times a second. And definite spacetime histories of what? You are always recycling your atoms, do you loose part of your identity every time you take a piss? Do you need to make a separate spacetime diagram for every atom that was once part of your body when you were in the third grade? > > >> he'd just be in new positions. >> > >What do you mean "he'd"?? Since they are no longer each other, they can > no longer be (in the sense of identity) the Helsinki man. > > Why on Earth not??? You people can't seem to get it through your head that the Helsinki man HAS BEEN DUPLICATED, as a result the Helsinki man has no difficulty whatsoever being in 2 places at the same time, that is what duplicated means for god's sake! And once a identical copy has been made environmental forces can cause those 2 identical things to differentiate and evolve differently. > I'm not identical with who I was a minute ago. > So is the one minute ago you dead? If so then the Helsinki man is dead in the same way, in other words not very dead. > You seem to have trouble noticing that the same English word has > different meanings. > And you can't grasp that pronouns can be ambiguous. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.