On Apr 28, 4:29 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> Because by construction it eliminates consciousness.
>
> When biologists eliminate the elan vital, by using chemistry instead,
> there is a real progress because they eliminate a spurious linguistic
> gap-type explanation by an explanation from conceptually more simple
> notions.
>
> But consciousness has never been proposed as an explanation of
> something. On the contrary, it is more the fact that we search an
> explanation for.
>
> Biologist have not make life disappearing, they have truly explained
> the phenomenon, from other well accepted phenomena.
> But saying that AI or brain research can dispose of the notion of
> consciousness is just eliminitivism of a fact.
> And this non-explanation relies on another sort of spurious "elan
> vital"-like notion: primitive matter/physicalism.

Agree with everything you've said here.

>
> Now comp explain both facts: the appearance of conscious
> (incommunicable but knowable first person) truth and the appearance of
> the beliefs in primitive matter, and this without need to postulate
> more than what we already believe in (addition and multiplication) of
> numbers.

I almost agree but I think if we look closely at comp we will find
that it relies on even more primitive sense-making intuitions.
Addition and multiplication are rooted in the notion of self, other,
and self-similarity. They require a sense-motive participation to
maintain a recursive process. Something has to know that something is
being computed, especially if that thing is what is doing the
computation. For this reason, I see that comp is a third elan vital-
like primitive, no more primary than either consciousness or matter.
What all three of these primordial concepts have in common is sense.
The ability to detect something, and detect it as being similar or
different from everything or nothing. Without the capacity to tune
into those kinds of symmetries, there can be no matter, no numbers,
and no consciousness. The universe has to make sense before we can
make sense of it. Numbers are a kind of sense, as is matter, emotion
and mind.

Craig

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