On 5/29/2012 9:06 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:

It is a question of terminology. If you say "a function" it is necessary to construct it(from physical point of view). But, physically it is impossible to do so.

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`It is certainly physically possible for me to consider the class of persons with no feet.`

`Whether I have an operational test for "no feet" or whether I can apply it a billion times`

`or infinitely many times is irrelevant. The function is defined, i.e. made definite. It`

`is not "physically constructed" whatever that may mean because the function is not a`

`physical object.`

I say "choice", because when proving some theorem we already say : "let usconsider/choose an arbitrary x belonging to X".

`No, we say "for every x an element of X" or "for any x, an element of X". Maybe you`

`should just stop saying "choose/consider".`

Brent

If you say "function" it is all the same. You give another name to yourinfinitely/finitely repeated choice.AlexanderOn Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:On 5/29/2012 8:11 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:The original poster introduces what free will means. 1) Every choice which is allowed in physics is a random choice or a determinate one. 2) If human free will choice exists, it is agreed that it is not determined by some law and is not a random process. 3)We have agfeed that the choice of "an arbitrary element" is not a random chaice and is not a choice determinate by some law.We haven't even agreed that it is a choice. It's just using a function, as in (. isan element of X) so (x is an element of X)->true and (y is an element of X)->false.(all x |x an element of X) doesn't involve choosing an element x, just specifying afunction that defines X. Then it is a "choice determinate by some law." And whether X is infinite or finite is a red herring. Suppose I said,"Consider an arbitrary person with no feet. Then he has no toenails." This is a perfectly valid inference whether there are finitely many or infinitely many persons in the multiverse. Brent4)Therefore I do call it "a free will choice in mathematics". One can consider it as a definition of a specific "free will choice in mathematics". 5) If one uses mathematics, then one operates with a process which is prohibited in physics. Therefore an investigator who uses mathematics cannot deny existence of mental processes which cannot be described by physics (and, in particular, cannot deny existence of free will, even if "free will" is not introduced explicitly). Good luck. On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote: On 5/29/2012 2:09 PM, Joseph Knight wrote:On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com <mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sun, May 27, 2012 Aleksandr Lokshin <aaloks...@gmail.com <mailto:aaloks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > All main mathematical notions ( such as infinity, variable, integer number) implicitlydepend on the notion of free will.Because nobody can explain what the ASCII string "free will" means the above statement is of no value. Precisely. The original poster should introduce some sensible definition of free will. Good luck!The "belief" in a particular perceived outcome given some state of affairs?--Onward!Stephen "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." ~ Francis Bacon--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups"Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups"Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.--You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups"Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "EverythingList" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

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