# Re: free will and mathematics

```On 5/29/2012 9:06 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:
```
It is a question of terminology. If you say "a function" it is necessary to construct it (from physical point of view). But, physically it is impossible to do so.

```
```
It is certainly physically possible for me to consider the class of persons with no feet. Whether I have an operational test for "no feet" or whether I can apply it a billion times or infinitely many times is irrelevant. The function is defined, i.e. made definite. It is not "physically constructed" whatever that may mean because the function is not a physical object.
```
```
I say "choice", because when proving some theorem we already say : "let us consider/choose an arbitrary x belonging to X".
```
```
No, we say "for every x an element of X" or "for any x, an element of X". Maybe you should just stop saying "choose/consider".
```
Brent

```
If you say "function" it is all the same. You give another name to your infinitely/finitely repeated choice.
```Alexander

```
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net <mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
```
On 5/29/2012 8:11 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:
```
```    The original poster introduces what free will means.
1) Every choice which is allowed in physics is a random choice or a
determinate one.
2) If human free will choice exists, it is agreed that it is not determined
by some
law and is not a random process.
3)We have agfeed that the choice of "an arbitrary element" is not a random
chaice
and is not a choice determinate by some law.
```
```
We haven't even agreed that it is a choice.  It's just using a function, as
in (. is
```
an element of X) so (x is an element of X)->true and (y is an element of X)->false. (all x |x an element of X) doesn't involve choosing an element x, just specifying a
```    function that defines X.  Then it is a "choice determinate by some law."
And
whether X is infinite or finite is a red herring.  Suppose I said,"Consider
an
arbitrary person with no feet. Then he has no toenails."  This is a
perfectly valid
inference whether there are finitely many or infinitely many persons in the
multiverse.

Brent

```
```    4)Therefore I do call it "a free will choice in mathematics". One can
consider it
as a definition of a specific "free will choice in mathematics".
5) If one uses mathematics, then one operates with a process which is
prohibited in
physics. Therefore an investigator who uses mathematics cannot deny
existence of
mental processes which cannot be described by physics (and, in particular,
cannot
deny existence of free will, even if "free will" is not introduced
explicitly).
Good luck.

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
<mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

On 5/29/2012 2:09 PM, Joseph Knight wrote:
```
```

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com
<mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Sun, May 27, 2012  Aleksandr Lokshin <aaloks...@gmail.com
<mailto:aaloks...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> All main mathematical notions ( such as infinity, variable,
integer
number) implicitly
```
depend on the notion of free will.
```
Because nobody can explain what the ASCII string "free will" means
the
above statement is of no value.

Precisely. The original poster should introduce some sensible
definition of
free will. Good luck!

```
```
The "belief" in a particular perceived outcome given some state of
affairs?

```
-- Onward!
```
Stephen

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

```
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