On 5/29/2012 11:11 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:
The original poster introduces what free will means.
1) Every choice which is allowed in physics is a random choice or a determinate one.


    IMHO, if it is either random or determined, it is not "free".

2) If human free will choice exists, it is agreed that it is not determined by some law and is not a random process.

    But we need to take care to define "determined" carefully.

3)We have agfeed that the choice of "an arbitrary element" is not a random chaice and is not a choice determinate by some law. 4)Therefore I do call it "a free will choice in mathematics". One can consider it as a definition of a specific "free will choice in mathematics".

How about "not ab initio specifiable" or "not reproducible in an exact way"?

5) If one uses mathematics, then one operates with a process which is prohibited in physics.


Therefore an investigator who uses mathematics cannot deny existence of mental processes which cannot be described by physics (and, in particular, cannot deny existence of free will, even if "free will" is not introduced explicitly).

We can do better by pointing out that to only prove or communicate that which involves physical processes, this makes the "knowledge" in teh 1p sense only possibly non-physical. We can never prove that it is non-physical.

Good luck.

    Fortune favors the prepared mind.

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

    On 5/29/2012 2:09 PM, Joseph Knight wrote:

    On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, John Clark
    <johnkcl...@gmail.com <mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

        On Sun, May 27, 2012  Aleksandr Lokshin <aaloks...@gmail.com
        <mailto:aaloks...@gmail.com>> wrote:

            > All main mathematical notions ( such as infinity,
            variable, integer number) implicitly
depend on the notion of free will.

        Because nobody can explain what the ASCII string "free will"
        means the above statement is of no value.

    Precisely. The original poster should introduce some sensible
    definition of free will. Good luck!

        The "belief" in a particular perceived outcome given some
    state of affairs?



"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

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