# Re: free will and mathematics

```On 5/29/2012 11:52 PM, meekerdb wrote:
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```On 5/29/2012 8:11 PM, Aleksandr Lokshin wrote:
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```The original poster introduces what free will means.
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1) Every choice which is allowed in physics is a random choice or a determinate one. 2) If human free will choice exists, it is agreed that it is not determined by some law and is not a random process. 3)We have agfeed that the choice of "an arbitrary element" is not a random chaice and is not a choice determinate by some law.
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We haven't even agreed that it is a choice. It's just using a function, as in (. is an element of X) so (x is an element of X)->true and (y is an element of X)->false. (all x |x an element of X) doesn't involve choosing an element x, just specifying a function that defines X. Then it is a "choice determinate by some law." And whether X is infinite or finite is a red herring. Suppose I said,"Consider an arbitrary person with no feet. Then he has no toenails." This is a perfectly valid inference whether there are finitely many or infinitely many persons in the multiverse.
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Brent
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Brent,

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You are assuming that there is no difference between an known and an unknown quantity. A big mistake!
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4)Therefore I do call it "a free will choice in mathematics". One can consider it as a definition of a specific "free will choice in mathematics". 5) If one uses mathematics, then one operates with a process which is prohibited in physics. Therefore an investigator who uses mathematics cannot deny existence of mental processes which cannot be described by physics (and, in particular, cannot deny existence of free will, even if "free will" is not introduced explicitly).
```Good luck.

```
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:
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On 5/29/2012 2:09 PM, Joseph Knight wrote:
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On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 12:52 PM, John Clark
<johnkcl...@gmail.com <mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Sun, May 27, 2012  Aleksandr Lokshin <aaloks...@gmail.com
<mailto:aaloks...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> All main mathematical notions ( such as infinity,
variable, integer number) implicitly
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depend on the notion of free will.
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Because nobody can explain what the ASCII string "free will"
means the above statement is of no value.

Precisely. The original poster should introduce some sensible
definition of free will. Good luck!

```
```

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```
--
Onward!

Stephen

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

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