On Jun 3, 1:00 pm, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:55 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > oddly after spending 60 pages attacking free will as an illusion of an
> > illusion, Sam Harris seems to that we may need retributive punishment
> > anyway.
>
> I don't understand what's odd about that, certainly we need retributive
> punishment if we don't want to be murdered in our beds.

I don't understand why anyone could not see that as a glaring
violation of common sense, except that I think it must be like
handedness or gender orientation. Why would punishment work in any way
if people are determined to commit crimes regardless? How could
punishment act on anything except the will? What law of physics
supports the effectiveness of punishment? Can you punish phosphorus
until phosphorus changes? Why not?


> And I disagree
> about "free will" being a illusion, a illusion is a real subjective
> phenomenon, "free will" is just a noise.

I have never seen anyone with such a personal axe to grind about this
subject. You hate free will. It is unworthy of even a hallucinatory
status. It is intolerable to you. It's as if you were trying to...deny
something that is undeniable.

Craig

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