On 14 Jul 2012, at 11:16, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 14.07.2012 11:00 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 14 Jul 2012, at 10:42, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
...
If to speak about your theorem, it is unclear to me, how the first
person view accesses numbers and mathematical objects.
Like a digital machine, which can access numbers encoded in their
memory, through logical gates, and so one. More details are given
currently on the FOAR list, but the idea is simple, with comp our
bodies are statistical first person constructs related to infinities
of number relations, so we access to them a bit like a fish can
access water. The price of this is that we have to abandon
physicalism eventually.
I am not sure if I understand. I would like to have an explanation
for a phenomenon, for example
1) I see a cat;
2) I see a piece of paper with 2 + 2 = 4.
Yet, when you start explaining, the phenomenon seems to disappear.
1) I see a cat. This is explained by the fact that your current
computational state belongs to an infinity of computations making you
singling out some stable patterns that you recognize, by access to
your previous experience as being cat. The qualia itself is explained
by the fact that when you refer to the cat, you are really referring
to yourself (with the implicit hope that it corresponds to some
relatively independent pattern), and the math shows that such a self-
reference involves some true but non rationally communicable feature.
The math explained why, if this justification is correct, machines/
numbers will not be entirely satisfied by it, for the first person is
not a machine from its own first person view.
2) The same with "2+2=4 written on some paper". It is also a stable
pattern in the computations going through your state. Here you might
just refer to what you have learned in school, and you might
considered that the truth referred by that sentence on a paper is more
stable than a cat, but the conscious perception of cat or ink on paper
admits the same explanation: some universal number reflect a pattern
belonging to almost all computations going through your state. You
have to take the first person indeterminacy into account, and keep in
mind that your immediate future is determined by an infinity of
computations/universal number, going through your actual state. For
example, all the Heisenberg matrices computing the state of the galaxy
at some description level for some amount of steps. They all provably
exist independently of us in a tiny part of elementary arithmetic, and
admit at least as many variants as there are possible electron
location in their energy level orbitals.
I cannot be sure if this helps you as it relies to some familiarity
with the first person indeterminacy and the fact that our comp states
are distributed in an infinity of distinct, from a third person pov,
computations (existing in arithmetic).
Bruno
Evgenii
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]
.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
