Hi Richard,

You mean "provable statements" not "truths" per se... I guess. OK, I haven't given that trope much thought.... I try to keep Godel's theorems reserved for special occasions. It has my experience that they can be very easily misapplied.

On 8/23/2012 1:24 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

Strong emergence follows from Godel's incompleteness because in any consistent system there are truths that cannot be derived from the axioms of the system. That is what is meant by incompleteness.

Sounds like what you just said. No?

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

    Hi Richard,

        Ah! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_emergence

    "Strong emergence is a type of emergence in which the emergent
    property is irreducible to its individual constituents."

    OK, but "irreducibility" would have almost the same meaning as
    implying the non-existence of relations between the constituents
    and the emergent. It makes a mathematical description of the pair
    impossible... I don't think that I agree that it is derivable from
    Godel Incompleteness; I will be agnostic on this for now. Could
    you explain how it might?

    On 8/23/2012 1:10 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
    It is said that strong emergence comes from Godel incompleteness.
    Weak emergence is like your grains of sand.

    On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Stephen P. King
    <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

        Hi Richard,

            Pratt's theory does not address this. Could emergence be
        the result of inter-communications between monads and not an
        objective process at all? It is useful to think about how to
        solve the Sorites paradox to see what I mean here. A heap is
        said to emerge from a collection of grains, but is there a
        number or discrete or smooth process that generates the heap?
        No! The heap is just an abstract category that we assign. It
        is a name.

        On 8/23/2012 9:44 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

            Now if only someone could explain how emergence works.
            Can Pratt theory do that?



"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed."
~ Francis Bacon

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