Hi John Clark 

1) God, being inextended, is invisible to the scientific method and logic, 
    life, being inextgended, is also invisible to the scientific method
    and logic, as is the intelligence of nature. 

2) As far as Hell goes, I believe that burning in exquisite torture forever 
    is hyperbole (an overstatement to emphasize a point).
    Jesus was a rabbi and rabbis often taught by means of hyperbole
    ("If you do not hate your mother  and father you cannot enter into the 
kingdom of Heaven").
    In many ways life as it is is Hell. Crap happens and then you die--- except 
for Christians,
    crap happens and then you live.

3) With reference to 1) there is no logical reason to believe in God. 
    Logic flies out of the window.

4) God is All-powerful but he's also righteous, a word we seem to have lost the 
meaning of these days.
    So he would not tease you or wish you harm unless you do evil things.

5) All of these questions and more are answered in any catechism. Luther
    put his whole theology into his catechism, so never wrote a theological 
treatise.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/12/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: John Clark 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-11, 16:51:53
Subject: Re: Re: victims of faith


On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:



> Belief in God is a gift from God, you cannot achieve it on your own.

OK but have you ever asked yourself why that should be? If God exists then that 
is the single most important fact about the universe, but why would the most 
powerful thing that there is be completely invisible to the scientific method? 
The only answer is that's the way God wants it. Well if God is all powerful 
then He's certainly capable of fooling us if He wants to, but such petty small 
minded behavior is not what I'd expect from a omnipotent omniscient being, 
somehow I just expect more than a boy teasing a puppy from such a glorious 
being. 

On the other hand I would very much expect that sort of thing from a human, I'd 
expect a human being who wanted to gain power over others with religion to push 
the idea that faith is a virtue, such a man would teach that the greatest most 
noble thing in the world is to believe deeply and passionately in something 
when there is not one damn reason for doing so. But I think far from being a 
virtue faith is just about the most horrible vice there is.
?

> The same is also true of salvation.

And its hard to understand why a omnipotent omniscient being would torture His 
creations for all of eternity if His efforts to fool them were successful and 
they thought for even one second that He did not exist. But it's very easy to 
see why a human being seeking power would push the idea, it's really pretty 
clever, the witchdoctor turns a disadvantage (lack of proof) into a advantage 
(the more ridiculous the idea the more virtuous you are if you believe it); and 
anybody who doesn't believe faces a infinite amount of pain.

? John K Clark ? ? 




?
?
?


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