Re: If I ever doubt that there is a God,

```Hi Terren,

On 11 Sep 2012, at 19:45, Terren Suydam wrote:```
```
```
```Hi Bruno,

http://vimeo.com/12185093

Here's a couple 3d "mandelbulb" worlds which no doubt require
significantly more than 1K to implement, but purely mathematical
nonetheless:

https://vimeo.com/18308069
https://vimeo.com/36857924
```
```

```
In 3D, without real stereo 3D, you can't distinguish zooming and travelling. So despite its beautiful magnificence, the Mandelbulb hides the growing complexity inherent in the M set.
```

```
```
In general vimeo is superior to youtube because most video producers
create HD-quality video. All of these will benefit from watching in
full-screen.
```
```
You ask a lot to my poor machine, but yes it is beautiful.

```
```
These videos are a better answer to the question "what is god?" than
anything that could be expressed in words, imho.
```
```

Don't mind to much :)

Bruno

```
```
Best,
Terren

```
On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
```
On 11 Sep 2012, at 13:27, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

If I ever doubt that there is a God,
the regularity of Newton's physics or
the microscopic structure of a snowflake
dispels such doubt.

These show design.
So there must be some intelligence interweaved in Nature.
I call that God.

That nature has structure and laws, to me indicates
that there must be some superintelligence at work.

```
OK. And with comp a case can be made that it is the intelligence innate to
```arithmetic.

```
Look how lawful and rich a very simple program, less than 1K, can define:
```

It is a succession of different zoom on the Mandelbrot set, which is
```
basically defined by the set of complex number c such that the iteration,
```starting from z = 0, of z_n = (z_n-1)^2 + c don't diverge.

```
If you can see intelligent design in a snowflake, I can see intelligent design in the Mandelbrot set, and in the circle too. It abounds in math and
```in arithmetic.

Bruno

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/11/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."

----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Time: 2012-09-10, 13:17:52
Subject: Re: The poverty of computers

Roger,

```
I agree with John here. Except that his point is more agnostic than atheist.
```
A better question to John would be: explain where consciousness and
```
universes come from, or what is your big picture. John is mute on this, but his stucking on step 3 illustrates that he might be a religious believer in
```a material universe, or in physicalism. Perhaps.

```
To be clear on atheism, I use modal logic (informally). if Bx means "I
```believe in x", and if g means (god exists)

A believer is characterized by Bg
An atheist by B ~g
An agnostic by ~Bg & ~B~g

```
But you can replace g by m (primitive matter), and be atheist with respect
```of matter, etc.

```
Someone who say that he does not believe in God, usually take for granted other sort of God, that is they make a science, like physics, which is irreproachable by itself, into an explanation of everything, which is just
```another religion or pseudo religion, if not assumed clearly.

```
I advocate that we can do theology as seriously as physics by making clear the assumptions. Like with comp which appears to be closer to Bg than to Bm. But g might be itself no more than arithmetical truth, or even a tiny part
```of it.

Bruno

On 10 Sep 2012, at 18:27, John Clark wrote:

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012  Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:

```
If you are an atheist, prove that God does not exist. If you can't, you
are a hypocrite in attacking those that do believe that God exists. You
```haven't a leg to stand on.
```
```

```
A fool disbelieves only in the things he can prove not to exist, the wise man also disbelieves in things that are silly. A china teapot orbiting the
```planet Uranus is silly, and so is God.

John K Clark

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