I don't think there is much in the way of "common sense" if you want
an explanation of consciousness from comp. I think it is fairly
non-intuitive.  The mainstream account which holds both comp and
materialism doesn't address it. The only account I know of that
explains consciousness from comp is Bruno's - and that is probably the
polar opposite to "common sense"!

Terren

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that comp is almost true, except for when applied to consciousness
> itself, in which case it is exactly false. I wasn't asserting it so much as
> I was illustrating exactly why that is the case. Does anyone have any common
> sense analogy or story which makes sense of comp as a generator of
> consciousness?
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Monday, September 17, 2012 6:37:39 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:
>>
>> On 9/17/2012 5:41 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
>> > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Stephen P. King <step...@charter.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On 9/17/2012 1:20 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
>> >>> Stephen - the Matrix video is a faithful interpretation of comp, but
>> >>> Craig's story is not, unless he includes the crucial narrative - that
>> >>> of the simulated Craig eating the simulated meal. I expect Craig to
>> >>> say that the simulated Craig, the one making the yummy noises, is a
>> >>> zombie, and has no actual experience or inner narrative. He is
>> >>> entitled of course to that position. He is just saying no to the
>> >>> doctor.
>> >>>
>> >>> Terren
>> >> Dear Terren,
>> >>
>> >>      You are completely missing his point. He is highlighting the fact
>> >> that
>> >> there is a difference that makes a difference between the case of "of
>> >> the
>> >> simulated Craig eating the simulated meal" and "of the "real" Craig
>> >> eating
>> >> the "real" meal". There has to be a "grundlagen" level at which there
>> >> is not
>> >> a "simulation", there has to be a "real thing" that the simulations are
>> >> some
>> >> deformed copy of. I have postulated, following an idea from Stephen
>> >> Woolfram, that a physical system (in its evolution) in the "real word"
>> >> *is*
>> >> the best possible "simulation" and thus it is literally the "real
>> >> thing"
>> >> that all images that we might have of it in our minds are mere
>> >> simulations.
>> >>      Craig is diving deep into this idea and looking at it "from the
>> >> inside"
>> >> and reporting to us his observations.
>> > Craig is just asserting that comp is false. The Matrix video only
>> > makes sense if you assume comp. The fact that you called that video
>> > the "matrix version of Craig's story" was confusing to me because the
>> > two rest on different assumptions. The movie shows us the character
>> > eating and enjoying the simulated steak. In Craig's story he has no
>> > experience of it.
>> >
>> > If you assume comp then there is no "primary real" version of anything
>> > (by the movie graph argument). Real is only phenomenological, like a
>> > dream. You can never know, not even in principle, whether you are the
>> > "real" version, it doesn't even make sense to ask the question. Below
>> > the substitution level, there are an infinite ocean of universal
>> > machines that instantiate your current state.
>> >
>> > Terren
>> >
>> Hi Terren,
>>
>>      "Comp is false" is too strong. He is explaining how comp is
>> "incomplete". The movie graph argument is flawed.
>>
>> --
>> Onward!
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html
>>
>>
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