On 9/30/2012 8:07 PM, meekerdb wrote:
How does your new remark answer my question? Are Humans somehow
special? Are we not part of the integrate whole that is Nature?
On 9/30/2012 4:56 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/30/2012 7:47 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:13 AM, Stephen P. King
On 9/30/2012 5:44 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Craig Weinberg
Organisms can utilize inorganic minerals, sure. Salt would be a better
example as we can actually eat it in its pure form and we actually
eat it. But that's completely different than a living cell made of
iron that eats sand. The problem is that the theory that there is
why this might not be possible doesn't seem to correspond to the
that all we have ever seen is a very narrow category of basic
active substances. It's not that I have a theory that there
inorganic life, it is just that the universe seems very heavily
the appearance that such a thing is not merely unlikely or
that it is the antithesis of life. My suggestion is that we take
odd but stubbornly consistent hint of a truth as possibly important
Failing to do that is like assuming that mixing carbon monoxide in
shouldn't be much different than mixing in some carbon dioxide.
I don't really understand what you're saying. It would seem to be an
advantage for an organism to develop something like steel claws or a
gun with chemical explosives and bullets, but there are no such
organisms on Earth. Nature does not abhor inorganic matter since by
weight most living organisms are inorganic matter. So why are there no
organisms with steel claws or guns? The simplest explanation
consistent with the facts is that it was difficult for the
evolutionary process to pull this off. You claim it is because it is
"the antithesis of life". Why, when there is an obvious and better
explanation consistent with Occam's Razor?
Humans are not organisms in Nature? Your statement is only
true if they
are not. How did this come to happen? Your thesis here requires
existence of Humans with steel claws and with guns is, somehow,
the definition of "organisms". How the heck does this happen????
Everything that happens in nature is natural, that's one way of
looking at it. But there is a difference between things that develop
through mutation and natural selection and things that are designed.
What is the real difference? Any argument that we might make
about "things that are designed" can easily be turned around and used
as an argument for "Intelligent Design" of the universe itself.
Nature is either an integrated and mutually consistent whole or it is
not. Things evolve by "natural" processes or they do not. There is no
middle ground here unless we are introducing an arbitrary preference
for a particular definition: i.e. what ever is the product of
mankind's peculiar processes in the cosmos is "designed" and what
ever is not related to the particulars of Mankind's peculiarities is
not "designed". If we do that then we have to have a good reason.
So I am asking you. Why make that distinction? What is the
difference that makes a difference?
The difference is that human designers have in mind some goal for
their design, they can start from a clean sheet or modify and existing
design, they can design, build and test things without making lots of
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