On 01 Oct 2012, at 16:32, Roger Clough wrote:



Those who have faith in the possibility of brain
transplants might consider this:

You cannot separate the self (your ID) from the body.

Your skin, the envelope of your body and self,
is part of you, meaning your self.  Why ?
If somebody pricks you with a pin, it causes a body reaction.

Do you agree that a brain in a vat can in principle dream about pins and skins, and skins sensations?

If "yes", why not a computer? And thus a number relatively to some universal numbers?

If "no", you introduce some magic to keep on some wishes, I think. In particular, you introduce infinities and non computability in the personhood, which is rather speculative imo. Anyway, you would go out of my working hypothesis, which might be very close to Leibniz, though.

Bruno


Yoga also uses this wholistic bodymind approach,
relaxing muscles relaxwes the mind. Pretty obvious.

The sense of touch is our most intimate sense,
and that's part of the skin. Intimate to the self.

But free will arguments typically leave out the body
as a determinant. So, including body in the definition
of the self, I prefer to use the term "self-determination",
meaning that our will and thought and desifre
is affected by everything within our skin.



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
10/1/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-30, 14:23:50
Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment


On 9/30/2012 8:39 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Only life evolves, and steel claws, being made of steel, are not alive,
at least in the ordinary sense (Leibniz believed that everything in
the universe is alive). So what you propose couldn't happen.

    The unstated assumption here is that organism are defined by the
bounding surface of their skin, anything 'outside' of that is being
assumed to not be part of them. It is not hard to knock down this idea
as nonsensical!

-- Onward!

Stephen


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