Hi Richard Ruquist Nature has put a firewall between subjective entities such as monads and objective entities such as BECs or the manifolds. When I said "attached" I should have said "associated to". There's no physical, only logical connections.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/9/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-08, 12:35:34 Subject: Re: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis ThoughtExperiment Roger, Monads are everywhere, inside computers as well as humans, rocks and free space. Whatever allows monads to connect to physical objects may be operative for inanimates as well as animates. So the first step is to identify the connecting mechanism. For physical consciousness I conjecture the connection is based on BECs (Bose-Einstein Condensates) in the monadic mind entangled with BECs in the brain. It has been demonstrated experimentally that BECs of disparate substances can still be entangled. So once a computer is designed with BECs as in the human brain then it may be capable of consciousness. Richard On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Richard Ruquist > > I may have given that impression, sorry, but > a monad can only make what's "inside" do what it can do. > > Human and animal monads can both feel, so they can be conscious. > But a rock is at best unconscious as it cannot feel or think.\ > > There's no way to tell what faculties a computer has. > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 10/8/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Richard Ruquist > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-10-07, 11:06:17 > Subject: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment > > > Roger, > > If human consciousness comes from attached monads, as I think you have > claimed, > then why could not these monads attach to sufficiently complex computers > as well. > Richard > > On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >> Hi John Clark >> >> Unless computers can deal with inextended objects such as >> mind and experience, they cannot be conscious. >> >> Consciousness is direct experience, computers can only deal in descriptions >> of experience. >> >> Everything that a computer does is, to my knowledge, at least >> in principle publicly available, since it uses publicly available symbols or >> code. >> >> Consciousness is direct experience, which cannot be put down in code >> any more than life can be put down in code. It is personal and not publicly >> available. >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 10/7/2012 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> From: John Clark >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2012-10-06, 13:56:30 >> Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> ?>>I'm openly saying that a high school kid can make a robot that behaves >> sensibly with just a few transistors.? ? >> >> >>> Only because he lives in a universe in which the possibility of teleology >>> is fully supported from the start. >> >> >> We know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics in this universe >> allow for the creation of consciousness, we may not know how they do it but >> we know for a fact that it can be done. So how on Earth does that indicate >> that a conscious computer is not possible? Because it doesn't fart?? >> >> ? >>> you have erroneously assumed that intelligence is possible without sense >>> experience. >> >> No, I am assuming the exact OPPOSITE! In fact I'm not even assuming, I know >> for a fact that intelligent behavior WITHOUT consciousness confers a >> Evolutionary advantage, and I know for a fact that intelligent behavior WITH >> consciousness confers no additional Evolutionary advantage (and if you >> disagree with that point then you must believe that the Turing Test works >> for consciousness too and not just intelligence). And in spite of all this I >> know for a fact that Evolution DID produce consciousness at least once, >> therefore the only conclusion is that consciousness is a byproduct of >> intellagence. >> >> >> >>> Adenine and Thymine don't have purpose in seeking to bind with each other? >> >> >> I don't even know what a question like that means, who's purpose do you >> expect Adenine and Thymine to serve? >> >> >> >>> How do you know? >> >> >> I know because I have intelligence and Adenine and Thymine do not know >> because they have none, they only have cause and effect. >> >> >> >>> How is it different from our purpose in staying in close proximity to >>> places to eat and sleep? >> >> >> And to think that some people berated me for anthropomorphizing future >> supercomputers and here you are ? anthropomorphizing simple chemicals. >> >> >> >>>> Why is everything aware, why isn't everything not aware? >> >> >> Because then we wouldn't be aware of having this conversation. >> >> >> And we are aware of having this conversation because everything is aware, >> except of course for computers. >> ? >> >>>> Robots are something? >> >>> No, they aren't something. >> >> That is just a little too silly to argue. >> >> ? >> >>> Everything is awareness >> >> Are you certain, I thought everything is klogknee, or maybe its everything >> is 42. >> >> >> >>> evolution requires that something be alive to begin with. >> >> Evolution requires something that can reproduce itself, there is no >> universally agreed on definition of "life" so if you want to say that >> viruses and RNA strings and crystals and clay patterns and Von Neumann >> Machines are alive I won't argue with you and will agree that Evolution >> requires that something be alive to get started. >> >> ? John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> >> ? >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
